Stephanie: Hi Edel. Welcome to the show.

Edel: Thanks Stephanie. It is so good to be here. Oh my goodness. So, so, so good.

Stephanie: Oh, thank you. It's, I'm thrilled to have you, partially because I get to listen to your accent for the next however long. I might drag this one out just so I can listen to your accent longer.

Edel: Well, it's fake.

Stephanie: It's fake. It's fake. You can't fake a Dublin accent. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's, it's the real thing. I know enough to know.

I lived there for a little while when I was in college and so, and I very, deep Irish roots and all of that. just visited family last summer over there. So it's very, very dear to me.

Edel: I love it. I love it. It is amazing for such a small country how many of us get around.

Stephanie: It is.

Edel: How much we've managed to, to populate the world. So yeah, it's.

Stephanie: You're right. It is, it's a tiny country for that amount of impact.

Edel: Small but mighty.

Stephanie: Well done you, as they say.

Edel: Thanks.

Oh.

Stephanie: All right. All right. Enough silliness. Let's, let's, let's be serious now. Not, really, but, why don't we start at the beginning. I love your story and there's some pieces in here, including literal breadcrumbs that we're gonna get to that are very exciting. But, let's start at the beginning.

Tell me about the forces that shaped you. Who were you when our story begins?

Edel: Sure. As you pointed out, I am Irish and, I wanna say it is now like 17 years ago that I found myself moving to the United States, to Houston. And my husband had got an opportunity for a job. We had literally actually just gotten married. A week later we moved to America.. And I've had this weird journey, Stephanie, where I was like, I wasn't very good in school.

I went to college, didn't really know what I wanted to do, which is so many of our stories. Right.And I studied science 'cause that seemed like a good idea. And I had this notion, I mean, I dunno why I did this, but I picked like math and physics and geology and computer science, and as you will learn my story, you'll learn none of those things.

Stephanie: Right.

Edel: like a good fit.

Stephanie: Were you any good at, at them in school though?

Edel: No.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Uh uh. Understood, understood. Did your parents tell you to pursue those science tracks?

Edel: No, what it, what it was, was, and I, you know, I kind of grew up, sort of in a generation, which I think is probably your generation too, right? Is, is where your parents weren't really that in too involved in like your career choices. You were sort, or, or maybe it was just different for me, but,sort of, they were supportive and they wanted to go to college and everything, but there wasn't like a hard plan that we had to follow and, and they weren't like, crazy tapped in the way I think kind of parents are nowadays, right? People are way more tapped in. So what I had was, I had a really good English teacher and I had a really good physics teacher and that's I think kind of what was like my North Star at that time. I was like, this feels like it makes sense 'cause I don't really know what else I wanna do.

So it was either gonna be some form of English type study or science. And so I landed with science 'cause a couple of my other friends were doing it at the time.So there was like, there was sort of a messy period here where I'm trying to figure out what to do. I leave college with a statistics degree and I think I'm gonna work in, I don't know what, statistic like jobs. Do that for a little while. And all along my whole life, I've always loved radio, always. There are pictures of me with headphones as a little kid listening to music. I would record myself introducing songs on the radio.

Stephanie: I love it.

Edel: And so there was always that love of, of radio and music there in my life.

And so while I was working, I did this little nine week course, where I learned about all the different elements that go into making like a radio show or making radio work. So I learned there were producers, I learned there were hosts, I learned there were, kind of tracks that you would pick to play. And, some of it was obvious and some of it was less obvious.

And that where I was like, oh, I could work behind the scenes doing radio. Like this could be a career. So having graduated from college and worked for a year, I suddenly was like, this is the path for me. I knew it. I knew that I wanted to be in radio and so I was building my career in Dublin right before I moved to Houston with my husband.

And I was like, this is the track I'm on. I wanna be in radio, I love radio, I wanna work on a show. I wanna build a radio show. This is my dream.And getting to Houston I started to build that dream. I worked in commercial radio. I worked in public media for a long time, and I was there building a public affairs show from scratch, my dream job.

Here I am living in a different country, ready for this, and that was the path that I was, I was always gonna be on. And, and I felt like we were probably gonna be in Houston for, for the whole time. And then sort of a bunch of different things happen. We're living in Houston. We, we experienced Hurricane Harvey, which was devastating to the city.

One of the biggest hurricanes to hit, like the rain event that it was too. And I at the time was working for the news station, so I'm reporting from my house as much as I can. I'm supporting the effort. I'm, I'm getting up in the morning to talk to like BBC Northern Ireland, to tell them what's going on and reporting for NPR and other places, like giving kind of input.

And it was crazy, and it was painful, and I just thought, I don't know if I love this city enough to go through this again. Right. Like I love, I loved Houston and, because of the work that I did as a journalist, I knew it so much better

Stephanie: Yeah.

than

Edel: any other blowing,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And I was, and I'm still so attached to it, but I just was like, I just don't know if I love it enough. I don't think it's my forever home.And at the time my husband was working for, like, he had started up a business with a friend of his in India, and he was working from home. And so my life was in Houston. It was in the city, but we were living in the suburbs. This is the maddest thing, but the, the suburb where we live, there were all these, cemeteries, or cemeteries as we call them in, in Ireland. and I would drive past them and, and I just had this feeling. I was like, I, I don't wanna be buried there. I dunno why.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: But like, it was a real visceral feeling of like, mm-hmm. Nope.And I remember early in my journalism career, I interviewed a lady who had been in a pretty serious car accident. And she was really struggling to get around. And if you can't drive in Houston, you can't go anywhere.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

Edel: And so I was like, okay. I just don't think I wanna grow old in this city. I think for lots of reasons. It was great for this moment in my life, transitioning to living in America, but it's not my forever home.

Stephanie: And you guys spent about a decade there too.

Edel: Yeah, exactly.

Stephanie: You weren't just in and out. You, you

Edel: No.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And I think, and I'm sure you know this and, and anyone listening who's familiar with Texas, who, who's maybe not from there. People have all these preconceived notions about what Houston will be like or what Texas will be like, and I just found Houston to be this incredibly friendly and welcoming city it like in, in ways that I could never have imagined.

And it really did feel like home, for those 10 years that we were there. And, and I'm still connected to people from there and they're still like, very much in my life. My best friend is from there. And,we're in touch almost every day. So it's, it, holds a special place in my heart. But I said I just don't wanna live through another hurricane.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

Edel: And I think the life here we have is just not right for us for the next however long. So, my husband had an opportunity, I feel like this is the story of my life is always kind of like moving, kind of where his work will lead us, which,sort of the nature of the beast. It got me to America, which I'm delighted for.

So there was a chance to move for a couple of different jobs. It was either Florida or Pennsylvania. And my husband Nick had always been back and forth to Pennsylvania and was like, this is great. It kind of looks like Ireland. It's hilly, it's green, it's pretty.You live in the Northeast, right? So you sort of, you know, that, that feeling.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And, and, and, and probably when you went to Ireland, you were like, huh. Yeah.

I can see the sort of the overlap. So it sense for us, so we, we moved. And I just was so sure, Stephanie, that like I knew exactly where I wanted to be or what I wanted to do. And we moved to Philadelphia and it just, it, it wasn't what I imagined it to be at all.

It was so hard to restart. And I thought, well, I just did this 10 years ago, like, rebuilt my life and started over. And surely it's gonna be really straightforward to just do it all over again. Like, I, I know this.

Stephanie: Now let me see. When you

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: Houston, you were 24, 25.

Edel: No. A little bit older. probably like I think 27, 28.

Stephanie: Okay, so then when you moved

Edel: yeah.

Stephanie: to Philadelphia, you were 37 38,

Edel: yep. Yep.

Stephanie: which brings us to the beginning of our story.

Edel: Exactly. Exactly.

Stephanie: It is, the magic hour for the midlife transition, and you move to a new city thinking you've got it all under control. You know what you want for a career, you know what you wanna do. Radio is really easily transferable.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: Journalism is really easily transferable. So you get to Philly and then what?

Edel: Hi. So, you know, the way you feel like there's a, there's a couple of moments that are probably the, looking back now, the roadmap of like the crisis that you hit.

Stephanie: Yes.

Edel: This, the little signposts of like, oh, this isn't gonna go well.

Stephanie: I do.

Edel: So.

Stephanie: I usually ignore them in my life. That's my story. My story is,

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: look at that pretty sign.

Edel: Yep. That's pretty much what I did. Yep. Yep.

Stephanie: I knew I liked you.

Edel: But isn't it also, like, you've no idea what forty's gonna feel like, so there's also like, that's part of it too. It's like how do you, you've no frame of reference, so you're like, I don't know, I was careening off the rails, but here we're, and this was, these were the signs that I was about to

Stephanie: yeah.

Edel: go off the rails.

Stephanie: So arriving, arriving in Philadelphia thinking I'm gonna stay in public media. And that was actually part of the reason why we picked Philly, 'cause WHYY is a great public radio station. It was a no brainer. And I spent, three months just looking for work. I wasn't in any hurry. And suddenly I was at home with my daughter all the time, every day for the first time, like for such an extended period of time.

Edel: So in Ireland you go back to work a year after you've had a child. So you actually do get that time and you adjust,

or a little more if you're lucky.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: I just, that was most amount of time I probably spent with her. And, and my job as a journalist, had been pretty demanding too. So, suddenly it's me and her against the world every day. And I'm like, I, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. And I would go to networking events and I, and I, because I thought I was gonna go into radio and I wasn't working, I was like, who am I?

Stephanie: Mm.

Edel: I was so defined by my job and I was so sure that that's what I wanted. And journalism, as you know, can be all consuming, right? It's, it never, like news never sleeps now. There's never kind of a break from all the information coming at you, and so you're always on.

Stephanie: Yeah, you don't turn that part of your brain off. 'cause even

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: in your quote unquote off time,

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: you still have those glasses on. Right? You're always looking at the

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: news. Looking for the news. Yeah.

Edel: Yep. Yeah.

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Edel: It's almost like always being in a state of like, fight or flight, which is, which makes it sound really negative, but it it's just that you're all

Stephanie: Alert, you're on a state of alert.

Edel: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so it took a good month for me to s stop checking my emails, as obsessively as I would've been when I was a journalist and to just really like slow down.

Stephanie: Mm.

Edel: So that was sort of like road marker number one, that suddenly here I was 38, not knowing kind of who I was, 'cause my work was removed. I'm like, who am I without my job? Right. What defines me? What do I like to do,

Stephanie: yeah,

Edel: with my spare time? Right. Because now I have a lot.

Stephanie: Yeah. How old was your daughter at the time?

Edel: So she was six, going on seven when we moved here.

Stephanie: Yep. so into school too, which did mean that you had a bunch of free time.

Edel: Well not quite at that stage, 'cause we, the way the school year ended in Texas, it, it ended like literally the end of May. So we moved like June 1st, so it was all.

Stephanie: Mm.

Edel: Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was all summer, me and her hanging out. And we only had one car, so like doing day trips on the train or

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: spend our time.

So it was, it, Yeah. It was like such an awakening in, in so many ways. And probably like one of the most challenging times of my life, 'cause it was, I mean it's so funny to think that like but I parent her all the time. It's like, Yeah, but that's just so different.

So here we are trying to build our new life, exploring. And I was networking, I would use contacts I had in Houston to connect me with people in Philly. So I was going to events and, meeting new people and, trying to kind of build a network.

The one thing I learned from journalism was that the best way to get to know a city is to really connect with the people who drive the city or who are building it, who are in turn connected. And so that was the first thing I did when I moved to Philly was like, how do I meet the movers and the shakers who intimately know the city so that I can get a sense of it and figure out like where I fit?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: So I was doing that and, and then sort of fast forward. I pick a job that comes up. I get offered a job and, and it's, it's a great opportunity. And it feels like I'm on the right track, but I'm also not, 'cause I, I think I had a notion that I was going to get more entrenched in a nonprofit, like maybe in a leadership position, 'cause working in public radio, it's a giant nonprofit. And I loved work where you care, where you can make a difference.

Stephanie: yeah.

Edel: period. And then on top of that you are sort of figuring out who you are again, because I feel like the part of that stage of life is that moment of who am I? Like I know what I was up until this point, like I, I, I just assumed that I was gonna keep on going, staying in radio, doing this, and suddenly I have this pause for three months and I'm questioning everything.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: Right.and I don't know if I, like, maybe I would've come to that point anyway if I hadn't had that pause. Or maybe I would've come to it later. I, I don't know.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: So second kind of road signal was this job was not the perfect fit for me. It was great in so many ways. but it wasn't an ideal working environment. And so I knew I needed to leave and that was the, oh, well what if I leave? What do I do?

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. How long were you at that job? It sounds like pretty short term.

Edel: It was, I think in total about three years.

Stephanie: longer than, okay.

Edel: But full-time with them, it was about kind of two, two years. Yeah.

Stephanie: So you had the pause when you moved to Philly,

Edel: Yep.

Stephanie: which kind of gave you the opportunity to notice some things.

Edel: Yep.

Stephanie: And then you jumped into this job and spent a couple of years. Well now you've got one eye open, kind of noticing what you had noticed during your pause and you're working in an environment that's not fitting, which I, I've been there. It's like, I love the job, the job description. It's great. This should be the best. And yet the environment just was so not a fit that it, it ended up, being really difficult. So I. So you already had one eye open and now this thing isn't fitting.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: Tell me a little bit about how that job ended or how you decided to leave that. Was it messy or did you know enough to say, I think I should leave here?

I feel like he doesn't know what I'm feeling. He doesn't understand what's going on. It's like this moment because I think it's, it's this buildup, right? I didn't notice everything had been building up and building up and building up. He was just, he was an innocent bystander. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Yeah,

I'm like, lemme apologize to him. He didn't realize it was in midlife crisis.

Stephanie: Right. Right. Because you looked the same as you did last week.

Edel: I know, I know, I know. From the last hour even, I was like, suddenly, who is this?

Stephanie: Right.

Edel: I just, I so, like Stephanie, like I lost it. I just, I, I fell apart, fell apart. I was bawling my eyes out. I was screaming. I was like all dah. I stormed outta the house. I just, I didn't know where I was going. I just needed to get away. I don't even, like, I think I just walked probably around the block,

Stephanie: Right,

Edel: I I mean,

Stephanie: right.

Edel: I didn't go far, but it was like, I just, I, I dunno. I can, wow. What is it. And I came back and I, I'm a tea drinker. I put on the kettle. I made myself cup of tea. I cut myself a slice of banana bread and I went to bed and I went to bed for like the next day.

And that, like, I. just, I just was like, this is it. This is my new home now.

Stephanie: Yes,

Edel: I'm living here.

Stephanie: I live in this bed.

Edel: Yeah. Can you forward my mail to me?

Stephanie: Yes, yes. My daughter will come and visit.

Edel: Exactly. But, and that was the thing too. I was like, I actually didn't wanna see anyone. I was like, no, like just stay away. Like, I don't know what's going on,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: but I'm just falling apart right now. And so that was the really messy moment because, you know the way, and this is what 40 is, you're so sure about where you're going and what you're doing, and then when you're not, you don't know what to do with it.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: It's terrifying.

Stephanie: Right. They are diametrically opposed. Like, I know who I am. I know what I'm doing. I know where I'm going. I'm 38 years old. I've been doing this for 20 years now. Like I'm an adult. I can do all these things. And then, all of a sudden, it's like a switch flips and it's like, wait. None of those things are true.

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: I don't know who I am. I don't know what I'm doing.

Edel: Yes,

Stephanie: I don't know where I'm going.

Edel: Yes.

Stephanie: I may have been an adult for 20 years, but that's all moot now.

Edel: Yep. And it's, why am I here? What am I doing? What is it all about anyway? Like, what is it for?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: It was the scariest feeling to be so uncertain.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And so what was crazy in, in the interim of this,I had started getting into to gardening and got really like really, really into it. And so I built a website. I call myself the mediocre gardener and sort of like started leaning into it. And in building that I was like, huh, I wonder, could I build a business. Like, I wonder, I wonder do I know enough to be able to work with like other female entrepreneurs or small nonprofits who just don't need a full-time communications person? Cause that's what I was doing sort of in the switch that, I mean, it's inevitable you go from journalism to PR, Right? This kind of how the world works.

Stephanie: it is.

Edel: And I just thought maybe, like maybe, that's what I can do.

Stephanie: Mm.

Edel: And so that started kind of percolating and, and I think it, that was scary.

Stephanie: Were you still in bed at that point? Because I know you stayed there for a couple of days. Were you,

Edel: I did,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: I did, you know what? I think I was, because I was sort of like, I need to figure out like a way forward. So things just started kind of settling in. And I think too, I had been thinking, I was like, do I want to even just change my career? And do I maybe even want to do like horticultural therapy or something? I was thinking any kind of possibility. I was like, I was open to it all. And I think in searching for that I was like, well, what if I just use my skillset to do my own thing?And I think this is a lot of women's stories, right? Is, is so few of us think building our own business or becoming entrepreneurs. And then, it just sort of is the only thing that makes sense and it's almost accidental.

Stephanie: Yes. Oh, that is my story. A hundred percent. I was in that job that wasn't fitting. I remember, don't know, six months before it all came to a head, I remember there was a, a, a, a thought that went through my head that was like, well, what if I went out on my own?

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: And the, the immediate response was, well, what do you have that's, that anybody would pay for?

Like, I had no

Edel: There it is.

Stephanie: idea what I would quote unquote sell. And now I'm a little older than you and sort of come, a little bit more attached to that sort of very traditional thing that was happening in, the seventies and the eighties. And I, as creative and open as I am, I tend to miss things the first time by.

Edel: Hmm.

Stephanie: I wasn't as aware of, how easy it was to hang a shingle. And I was so focused on doing my job for companies that it didn't strike me, that I could take my skills to the marketplace and, and utilize them. Although that is what ended up happening. And, and this month, my business is 18 years old.

Edel: Stop.

Stephanie: So it was the right thing, but absolutely, totally, completely an accident for me.

Edel: Yep.

Stephanie: My, my situation ended very poorly, 'cause I did not see enough of the road signs.And once that ended, I had a friend who was a, um, um.

Edel: Oh, like a career coach.

Stephanie: Career coach. That's it.

Edel: Yeah. Yay. I got

Stephanie: And, she said to me, she said, now's the time. And you will find the money. And we're going to work together. And she almost didn't give me a choice. And I kind of thought, oh, I'm 36 years old. Like, I know who I am, I know what I'm good at.

Edel: Sure.

Stephanie: I think I know all this stuff. And we did a bunch of the assessments and most of them came out. In the same area that I al already knew, but they added some context. There were things that I did learn. And so I had said to her like, while we're doing this, I'm gonna go and do some freelance work because I've got some bills to pay. And so, yep. Great.

And so I thought these were two parallel tracks, and about six months later, I, I picked up my head one day when we were meeting and I said, well, what if I, what if I did this? She basically kind of went, welcome to your life. Like, like it was not a surprise to her. She was like, she was biding time until I figured it out, 'cause she

Edel: Yep.

Stephanie: couldn't tell me, 'cause I would just said, no, that's not possible. And it turned out that not a single person in my life was surprised by this. My parents. People used to work for me. Friends. No. I was the only one who was wildly surprised that I was gonna be an entrepreneur.

Edel: But is, that one of those things where you're so close to it, you just can't see it?

Stephanie: So there's a piece of that for sure. And, if I go back probably at least four, maybe five or six years before I, left that job. I had not had a great.I, I had great jobs.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: They they weren't great fits in that I could only last somewhere about, 18 months, two years, and then I was off to something else. Actually, if I go back even further, it, it was, it was longer than that. So it just, I could never find the right fit for me environment-wise or company-wise, or boss wise, even though I loved all the work that I was doing,

Edel: Sure.

Stephanie: I hadn't, I didn't notice that.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: And I didn't notice that as a pattern, a long standing pattern. I noticed it in

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: individ when it happened once. I noticed it then. It happened again. I noticed it then. Um, There was a piece of like, not having, not sort of taking my brain and pulling it up for a, a, a 20,000 foot view of

Edel: Sure. Sure.

Stephanie: what wass going on. But there's a piece of your story that I think is really important, and that is the pause.

Edel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Another pause. Another pause.

Yeah.

Stephanie: Because for me it was so like head down, like work, work, work. Go, go, go. Do, do do.

I was involved in the business community. And I was involved in a bunch of nonprofits. And and there was just so much and it was just keep going, keep running, keep running. And I never did take the time to stop and just think and to let ideas bubble up and to let

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: my inner voices be heard. I was just pounding the pavement so hard on all of the things I was doing. And so that's why the pause that you had when you moved to Philadelphia was so interesting to me. Because in other people's stories that I've heard as well, like people who take the time to hear their inner voices, to, to, to listen to them, even when they say scary things, like you're not doing the right thing with your life, right.

Edel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: It might be saying scary things, but I I never would've given it a chance to speak up. So again, there's, things that, I did that made the whole transition much harder.

Edel: sure.

Stephanie: And, again, part of the reason for doing this is to showcase how other people get through it in a much more graceful way than I did.

And

Edel: Oh! None of us do! No, none of us do.! Right.

Stephanie: Trust me, they're, they're out there. They're out there, introspective, thoughtful people who listen to their inner voices and haven't buried them under a thousand pounds of concrete.

Edel: I love it. I love it.

Stephanie: I've met a few of those people. They're, they're lovely.

Edel: Do you know, what's funny when you say to me about the pause is it, it kind of makes me think that actually, that when my first pause when we moved to Philadelphia, that I started to think like, what do I like to do?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: What are my hobbies? What makes me me outside of my job? What defines me as a person?

Stephanie: Yes,

Edel: so focused on that, that I forgot to think about what happy looked like.

Stephanie: Oh.

Edel: Right. And I didn't realize that success didn't mean happiness, and it didn't feel right. It just felt like success for success's sake. And when you talk about driving yourself, right? So I paused and, and it changed me a little bit. And then I found myself pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing to like get to what right looked like and to be perfect. And then crash.

Stephanie: Yeah,

Edel: To my bed with banana bread and a cup of tea.

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah.

Edel: And pause again. Right? But it took, it took almost three years, if not more, to kind of get there.

Stephanie: But the fun thing about that is, and, and this is gonna be funny, right? The seeds that you planted in the first pause,

Edel: mm-hmm.

Stephanie: were what was, what was blooming in the second pause. And, and I, it's fun because it's actually gardening,

Edel: Garden, yeah.

Stephanie: You thought, what if I could start a gardening website,

Edel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: That was your path out of

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: being stuck, your brain being stuck in, this is what I do.

Edel: Yes.

Stephanie: So the, the pause that you took the first time where you started thinking a little bit bigger about yourself

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: And what do you want. Not just not what are you supposed to be doing, but what do you

Edel: Sure.

Stephanie: want?

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: And that gave you enough bits and pieces that over the course of a couple of years, they, they marinated, they percolated, and then they bloomed. And they led you where you were meant to be.

Edel: Yes. Yes, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I think they led me to, so the reason I say that I, I, I worked with this, my company for a little bit longer was 'cause I actually consulted with them. So I set up my own PR consultancy and I ended up working with them for a little while longer, which felt like the right thing to do, but it unfortunately wasn't any better than.

Stephanie: Right, right. Right, right. Because you already had your patterns established and so you couldn't really break them and, yeah.

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: And now they could treat you worse because you didn't really work for them.

Edel: Yes,

Stephanie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Edel: Was an outsider. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But again, it was, what, what was so nice is, what's so funny is I still work with a lot of the people who I met there.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And I helped them with their work. And, and so the people I met there were just incredible, incredible. So it, it, it, it brought me so much and actually changed me as a person, as a job. Like in, in both the ways that made me feel not so great about myself. But then I felt empowered afterwards. I was like, oh, I know things. I can do this. I like, I have confidence in me. I don't have to get it from my work.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: On the other side, it also, because I, I worked at an organization that helped people experiencing homelessness. It was empowering individuals and, it taught me empathy and just so many things and showed me a different perspective on the world, that I hadn't experienced. It was a life changing job in, in so many ways, in both good and bad.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And so when I kind of come out of that and I think, I think I can start my own PR consultancy. Suddenly it's like all of the pieces fit together and then it's, it's, you can be successful in your happiness, right? And that's kind of what happened. suddenly I am working with incredible people who are trying to make a difference. And helping share their stories. And they're wonderful humans to work with. And my job is a joy.

Stephanie: Hmm.

Edel: And so,coming out on that side of it and, and, and kind of building my business and, and I, I always like to think, I didn't notice this when I was kind of younger, when I was living in Ireland, but in the United States, I do feel like there's a lot of emphasis on networking and people getting to know each other, right? And sometimes networking for networking's sake. You may never see that person again. And sometimes you click with someone and you don't know how they're gonna be in your life, but you want them to be in your life.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

Edel: In PR a lot of what you do is build connections with journalists obviously, and with your clients and between them, and with people. And you see opportunities when they arise. And,I've always kind of connected people and things and and it's become my favorite thing to do. And there's just the, the depth of my life because of all of the connections

that I've built over the years in my work, and just in my life. And,I think, i, I feel like I was broken and I fell apart, and then came out the other side more whole probably than I had ever been.

If that makes any sense.

Stephanie: It does. It does. You were, if, if I were to take everything I've learned through these conversations, you were more you at that point then you had been in the 20 or 25 years previous, because in those 20 or 25 years previous, you were so focused on, and you said it earlier, you were, you were focused on what right was and what success

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: was.

Edel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: And all of those supposed to's. I'm

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: supposed to do X, Y, and Z. And then when you broke down and then rebuilt.

Edel: You

Stephanie: rebuilt the thing that fit you better.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: That is unique to me. I'm not trying to follow anyone else's path. And I think that's a lot of what I was doing. I was like, oh, look at them over there. Look at what they're doing. Should I be doing that? And always looking for external validation, which it's lovely, but also learning that I am enough. Yes. Yes. That's actually, that's a thing I want to dig in with you, because when we first met, you said for a long time you were looking at the outside world to tell you that you were enough. Tell me a little bit about that.

Edel: I've always been looking, like I'm the baby of my family, right? So, there's probably some truth in that I got all the attention, being the baby. And then there's some truth that I was also the baby, so I got forgotten about. Because I was the baby.

Stephanie: sure.

Edel: And, so I believe that I didn't do a good job until I was told I did a good job for the longest time, in a lot of my jobs.

And I remember before I moved to Philadelphia, I had really, really great bosses and they were so supportive of me, and they believed in me more than I believed in myself.And they were my, my best cheerleaders. And so when I moved here, I kind of brought their confidence with me, but it because it wasn't mine, it was theirs.

Stephanie: Right.

Edel: It didn't last.

Stephanie: Right.

Edel: And so it kind of took going through a job where I was being questioned and second guessed and, I didn't have that belief that I knew I had to find it within.

Stephanie: Hmm.

Edel: One of the things I used to get as a journalist is people would always like, reach out and send really nice emails and really kind emails about stories I had done. And I used to keep them in a file thinking, I'm gonna be having a tough day and I'm gonna look at these and they're gonna make me feel better. And I never looked back at them

Stephanie: Mm.

Edel: because I realized that that outside praise is so short lived.

Stephanie: Mm

Edel: There's so much more strength and power in that inside belief.

Stephanie: mm.

Edel: That's, that's where I came to. And it took 40 years, to kind of feel that. And, and so I think that was, that was the, the switch. Suddenly like, no, I'm, I. I'm, I'm good enough and I don't need, like, it's so lovely. I have so many wonderful clients who, are like my best cheerleaders as well as me being their best cheerleaders, which is why it works and it's such a great relationship. But I also believe I'm good enough now too, and even in those days when I have self-doubt,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: I can kind of rally myself much, much better and not look for it from someone else.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: so Yeah.

I think that has been, I mean, that, I think that's always the thing that sustains us, right? Is that we don't realize that's what we need, that we just need to believe in ourselves. But when you do and you kind of at least spot it, you're halfway there.

Stephanie: Yeah, and it's a much deeper resource. It's a much deeper well than, than looking

Edel: Yes.

Stephanie: like, you said, the outside it, it. It doesn't stay with you, but if you can believe in yourself that you are good enough, smart enough, a good enough business person, a, whatever it is, that'll stick with you.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: Over time.

Edel: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh man. I wanna see if, so let's go back to

Edel: Sure.

Stephanie: in the bed for just

Edel: Yeah. Sure.

Stephanie: you said something to me when we first talked about, when you came out of the bed, you said you were the phoenix,

Edel: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: and what I loved was you said there was ash in the bed. Or maybe it was banana breadcrumbs.

Edel: Little, little bit of both.

Stephanie: of both.

Yeah, soI'm not the kind of person who pauses. And so the fact that I literally had no idea about where I wanted to be except in bed with a cup of tea,

Yeah.

Edel: feeling sorry for myself, completely falling apart.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And finally, when I emerged, I did, I, I felt like I was reborn this phoenix,sort of like reborn from the ashes or Yeah, was it the, the breadcrumbs of my banana bread? I don't know. It was one or the other. But it was, or, or the, the crumbs of like lying still and stationary for a couple of days.

But it was, it was that moment of, of. Like, Yeah. Feeling like a completely, completely different person. Or maybe like a butterfly, emerging from the cocoon. Just this idea of you're like reborn,

Stephanie: right,

Edel: I'm new again. Oh, good.

Stephanie: right.

Edel: Because I.

Stephanie: And the cocoon is a really messy stage where they break down all the way into goo. There is no physical form there in the cocoon. It is goo. And so, yeah, I mean, which is a great, it's a great metaphor, right? Because we, if you break down, it's best not to, if you can, it's best not

Edel: Yeah.

Stephanie: to resist it. Just go with it. It may feel scary or terrifying or messy, but there's probably something really interesting and potentially great that's gonna come out of it.

Edel: Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it, isn't it, funny? I almost kind of wish, like you knew that this was gonna happen and I was like, and I could have embraced it and it would've been great.

Stephanie: Right.

Edel: It doesn't work that way

Stephanie: No, no. I'm sorry. There will be no washing of the hair. We are not going to embrace this. gonna be gross. We're gonna smell. We're gonna have three day old socks on and, then you'll get it. Then you'll get the epiphany.

Edel: This too shall pass.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: Mm-hmm. That's, that's what it is. Dirty underwear equals epiphany. That's how it works. That's all it takes.

Stephanie: All it takes. That's all it takes. I love it. I love it.

Oh, Edel, thank you so much for sharing your story, for being here with me and for being so generous with your story. I, I really appreciate it. You've given us just another great illustration of, of what this transition can look like and how great it can be on the other side.

Edel: I know, I know that is the best gift, right? If I can sort of impart anything, is that who I am today, to your point, like happier, just, in so many ways. I laugh so much more now than before, took myself way too seriously.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Edel: And now I've come out the other side and I'm like, I'm, I am the best version of me that I can be. And that's all you look for, right?

Stephanie: Oh, amen. Fabulous. Thank you.