Stephanie: Hey Julie, welcome to the 40 drinks podcast.

Julie: Hey Stephanie. I'm so happy to be here with you.

Stephanie: It's my pleasure to have you. You know, when I start these conversations, most often, I really want to get a sense of who people were as a younger person and what forces shaped them into being the person they were in their early to mid thirties, because that's when this transitionary period usually hits people sometime between 35 and 45.

We're not all on the same schedule, but But I know you sort of fall into that timetable. So can we start today by, will you tell me a little bit about what forces shaped you and kind of how you became your 30 something self?

Julie: Yeah, sure. So I would say. Probably the biggest force that shaped me was growing up with an alcoholic mother a single mom. So my parents divorced when I was or seven. and so my mom was a primary caregiver and she was an alcoholic and she was abusive. And so that's how I grew up. I grew up on eggshells hiding from her, trying to not be seen.

And being berated and you know, she was really ugly with me. And so that was what shaped me. And as an adult, once I became aware, I didn't even know that this was unusual because I didn't know. It was just,

it was,

Stephanie: that was going to be one of my questions. Did you have any idea that this wasn't normal?

Julie: No, not until I was in high school in my junior year of high school. So this is when I start having other forces, other positive forces come in.

Stephanie: Your mom was able to hold a job. She did work. Okay.

Julie: She was a functioning alcoholic.

Stephanie: So the functioning part. Yeah.

Yeah. And. So you said that she was not very nice to you when she was drunk. Was it mostly verbal abuse or was it physical abuse as well?

Julie: It was mostly verbal, very ugly verbal abuse. Every once in a while it would be physical as well. You never really knew. So I was just always on eggshells.

Stephanie: I'll bet.

Julie: Yeah,

She's very volatile.

Stephanie: It's an interesting combination of characteristics because on the one hand from the alcoholic side, you were saying things like you were walking on eggshells, you tried to be invisible, you almost kind of erased yourself. And yet from the latchkey kid side, you're very capable, very taking care of yoursel f, right?

So that's a really crazy mix.

Julie: Yeah. And the other thing that I didn't mention is that I would rebel against her. So I would yell back. So even though I was hiding to try to not attract attention to myself, when she would lash into me, I would. respond back. Yeah.

Stephanie: Okay. so, okay, you make it through high school and what did you do after high school? Or did you head off to college or?

Julie: Immediately after high school, I actually did a foreign exchange program and lived in Italy for a year with a host family. And that was amazing. And that was another time when I, I realized, Oh, there's different ways to live through ways that families live. And so that was really beautiful experience for me.

I'm very grateful that I had that opportunity. And so then after that, I came back and I lived back with my mom for a little while and attended the community college locally, I got my own place. And then I did my first two years of undergrad there and then transferred to the university after that.

Stephanie: Okay. All right. so you were, able to sort of get out on your own and get out from under her roof and kind of start your adult life on your own.

Julie: Yeah, it was like I couldn't wait to get out from under her roof and be out on my own. Yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. so what's the next like decade look like? Yeah.

Julie: So my twenties were, they were very confusing. It's really, these are really hard. You have no idea who you are. You're trying to find yourself and towards the later twenties, that's when things started solidifying a little bit for me. So this is when I kind of found the path and I'm on the healing path.

So I was thinking that I wanted to be, do a master's in public health. And so I was studying for that and I got a job working at a healthcare administration company and so I was doing that and while I was working there, I got repetitive stress injury from using the computer. My elbow got super, super inflamed and then it moved into my wrist and I was really young and had no idea.

And so I was just, you know, I take Tylenol and I take ibuprofen and I would just keep doing that back and forth. And you're not supposed to do that. Yeah, I agree. It's really bad for your body to do that, but I had no idea I was just like popping pills. So anyway, so I Eventually told one of my co workers about the pain that I was in and they were like you need to tell hr about this.

And so then that started this whole thing. I had this really bad workstation set up at the desk. And so they corrected that. But anyway, so it started a whole cascade of appointments and things where I was getting physical therapy and all of these different modalities to try to bring inflammation down.

By the time I got help, my elbow was just, it was swollen and it was red and it was, super inflamed and super painful. Yeah. It was like, that's the point where like, my right elbow. I'm right handed and, you know, brushing my teeth even hurts. Like it was like

Stephanie: Well, thank goodness in that moment for actually being in a corporate environment because they're going to, right? Because they're going to take care of you. Rather than being on your own or something. Yeah. Okay.

Julie: Yeah, Yeah. And so, ultimately they would get the inflammation down a little bit and then I would go back to work and it would just come right back as soon as I got back on the computer and stuff. And so eventually I had to fully stop working there. But along that time, the doctor was like, well, you know, we have this acupuncturist on staff. We've tried everything else. Why don't you try seeing her?

So then I was trying to decide what to do next with my life. And I wanted to be in healthcare but I wanted to be more kind of one to one with people. And I realized public health was not what I wanted to do. And also I realized I need to have a career that it wouldn't have to be on the computer on for all the time.

I was like, okay, well maybe my body's trying to tell me something. Right. So, the person I was dating at the time, he suggested that I study Chinese medicine and I said, well, what are you talking about? I can't study Chinese medicine. And he was like, why not? I don't know. I never really thought about studying Chinese medicine before.

And anyway, so I ended up looking into it and realized, Oh, this could actually be a really good fit for me. So that's how I ended up on this path of Chinese medicine and then coaching and all that, like this injury. And then another pillar of light in my life is a person who was able to see things, that I would have never thought of on my own.

So it's like another pivotal person who suggested that at the time. So that was the late 20s when I ended up going into acupuncture school and all of that. So

Stephanie: How's your love life along this time?

Julie: So I was dating this guy. We were together for about six years and he was older than me. And we had a really fun, good relationship, but we also would fight a lot.

Stephanie: I've I've had those. It's like, Oh, he's a great guy and we have a lot of fun, but we fight all the time.

Julie: But we would just bicker like old people, like people had been married for years. That's how we bickered. And the thing with that relationship is that I was with him all that time and he never really told me he loved me. It's so telling with, you know, who I was at that

Stephanie: Yeah. Were you telling him that you loved him or was it just not something you guys said?

Julie: No I, said it on multiple occasions and he could never say it back and I still stayed with him.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah.

Julie: Because it was, well, there's no rationale. I didn't believe that I could really find anyone else. That was how low my, for lack of a better word, self esteem was, you know, like how little I valued myself, my worth and how little I believed in myself.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah.

Julie: and my, the lack of self love.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Julie: So yeah, so I stayed with him. And then at a certain point, going on six years, I was like, Dude, are we going to stay together? Are we getting married? What's the deal? It was in my early thirties. And he didn't want to not be together, but he also couldn't commit to marrying me.

And so I gave him an ultimatum. So I was like, well, if we're not engaged by this date, I'm done. I'm out of here. So literally that date is when he proposed.

Stephanie: Oh my God. On that date. He waited till the very last

Julie: Oh, yes. Yes. And we had a wedding date set. And anyway, fast forward 10 months, whatever. Four days before the wedding, he backed out.

Stephanie: Oh God. How'd you feel about

Julie: So in the moment I was devastated, of course. There was this tiny little piece of me inside that breathed this huge sigh of relief.

Stephanie: So a part of you knew? Yeah,

Julie: A part of me knew the whole time. The whole time. And I kept ignoring her. That was my intuition. That was my gut.

Stephanie: Yeah,

Julie: So, but at that time, I was not tapped into that at all. I wasn't, I just I didn't respect my intuition, you know, like I didn't even know how to really sense it or honor it at all. Right. So, it was devastating. And it was what it was, but it was just like that, you know, I was in, my last semester of acupuncture school at the

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Julie: and I had, you know, had this week off for the wedding and then for travel and all of my patients knew all of my friends at school, like everyone knew right and so there's like, Oh, having to come back and just

Stephanie: Embarrassment on top of everything else.

Julie: Humiliation, embarrassment, just the, you know, I was like mortified is how I felt.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Julie: mortified, so that was when I was 32, that happened.

Stephanie: So that you put that behind you and, from where you were at that point, how do you think your love life is going to go? Like, what are you thinking about the future of your love life at that juncture?

Julie: It's such a, I don't really know in the sense of like, I just kind of carried on my whole life. So this is another thing relating back to my mom and just growing up with not really having any sense of self worth at all. And for me, it was about like wanting and needing to be loved. And so being in a relationship was the way that I got that, even though that's not the way you get that. But for me, because I didn't know how to love myself, that's how I got

Stephanie: So you almost had, like a hole you were trying to fill.

Julie: Yes. Huge hole that only I could really fill, but ultimately, but I looked to others to fill

Stephanie: Yep.

Julie: me.

Which is what so many of us do.

Stephanie: Yeah, And I think a lot of us do that when we're young too, right? We think that's like, if I'm lonely, well, I better you know, make friends or start seeing someone. I want to do cool things out in the world, I better have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. And it's like, when we're young, we, think that they quote unquote complete us.

Julie: Yeah. Exactly. Yes. And it's such a misnomer because no one completes you. Only you. You are a whole person and until you can really see yourself as whole, any relationship you get into or anything like that will always be imbalanced and will never really feed your soul.

Stephanie: Right. Right. So, speaking of which, you started to get out in the world and take up some new hobbies after this relationship falls apart. And tell me a little bit about that.

Julie: Yeah. So I ended up moving. I left California where I had been born and raised, except for the time it was in Italy, and I moved out to North Carolina to take a job at an acupuncture clinic. So something totally different. I didn't know anyone. And so I started social dancing. I learned how to swing dance and salsa and really fun.

It was really fun. So that's what I did to start meeting people in North Carolina. Once I had been here for about six months and I was just like, Oh my God, I'm. I just need to get out. You know, I just needed to get social cause I was just going to work and then coming home and I was like, okay, no, something's got to change here. So, yeah. So that was super fun.

And of course it was in the years shortly after the Gap Khaki ad that we all know and love and the sort of the resurgence of swing dancing and swing music. And so I did the same thing. I, I went out and, you know, and that's the kind of thing you can do as a single person, right? Cause that's the way they teach it. And then it's just sort of like a, you know, pairing off with different people in the room. It is So

Julie: Yeah. It's good, clean fun because you don't really drink. You can't drink when you're dancing because you got to be on. Right. So like, maybe people would have like one drink the whole night or something, but like you really, most studios don't even have alcohol. Right. So there's no, drinking. And you don't even really have to engage that much with people if you don't want to. Right. So it's like you do your dance and you like, have fun with it. And you're like, okay, bye bye. And you move on

Stephanie: Right.

Julie: because that's how it is. It's social dancing. It's not like ballroom where you have just a partner. It's like You switch partners with every dance.

Stephanie: Right. Yeah.

Julie: It's really fantastic. You meet a lot of people, but you don't have to spend a lot of time talking to them if you don't want to.

Stephanie: Right. Right. Yeah. And if somebody is a great dancer, you can try to hook up with them later in the evening. If they're not great to answer, you know, like, okay, that was your one and done. Thanks.

Julie: That's right. Exactly.

Stephanie: What comes out of this social dance, part of your life.

Julie: So eventually what came out of this social dancing scene was this really hot salsa teacher that I started dating.

Stephanie: Oh

Julie: and yes, only it ended up being a total nightmare, but, and it ruined like my whole experience of salsa dancing and all of that too, unfortunately. But yeah, so that's what came out of it. This steamy, sultry relationship that was. The most toxic experience I'd ever had in my entire life. So

Stephanie: And that's saying something for a girl who grew up in an alcoholic household.

Julie: Yes. What was interesting is that there were times when I was with him in the relationship and thinking, Oh my God, I'm dating my mom.

Stephanie: Oh, wow.

Julie: Even though he was not an alcoholic, but his behavior was exactly like hers, so volatile. So just, I never knew what I was going to get. And I was just like, Oh my God, how I'm dating my mom.

Stephanie: Oh.

Julie: It's crazy. Yeah.

Stephanie: So, one of the things that you said to me, when we first met and chatted was that your, intuition was, screaming at you while you were dating this man. What did that feel like? How did that express for you? Because I think one of the things for most of us is, we don't know what our intuition is. We don't know how to listen to our gut. And sometimes like it might just feel like indigestion or stupid ideas. How did it present for you and how did you actively ignore it?

Julie: That's what I did. Actively ignored it.

Stephanie: Okay.

Julie: Anxiety. I already had headaches before, but I'm sure that was exacerbated at that time. Insomnia, I started not sleeping.

Stephanie: Oh, wow.

Julie: So that's one way that my intuition really talks to me is when I'm in bed asleep, yeah, so that what else, and then.

Stephanie: you weren't getting, like language, like full on messages, like, do do this or don't do that. You were okay. All right. You you were actually hearing inside this guy's not good.

Julie: Yeah, I mean, to hear myself say, you're dating your mom. How did you get here? How did you get here? So many times I heard myself like, how did we get here? I deserve better. Like, this is not okay. Many times I said that to myself and it took a long time before I finally could honor it and believe it. Thankfully, eventually I did, but so many times when I was just like, and there were so many red flags that went up from the very beginning that I just totally ignored and

Stephanie: What kind of red flags?

Julie: His temper.

Stephanie: Yep.

Julie: Yeah. It wasn't coming out at me. At first, but it showed his temper very quickly. And he was lying, but I didn't know that he was lying. But it took me a minute to know that he was lying, first of all, because I didn't know him very well, right? And then as I got to know him, as we were together longer, I was like, Huh, that's interesting. But again, I didn't really believe at first that he would be lying to me. Then I realized oh no, he's totally lying to me. And then I started being able to see, I could recognize when he lie. I could see it in his face. I saw exactly what he did when he would lie.

Stephanie: okay.

Julie: Mm hmm.

Stephanie: And yet you stayed.

Julie: Yes. Mm hmm. Because I was trying to help him, fix him. hmm.

Stephanie: I had a whole string of those. Yeah. Oh, if I only love him enough, he'll see his potential and realize what a good guy he could be. Yeah. Or he'll get a handle of his baggage or he'll, you know, whatever.

Julie: It's so codependent, you know, it's like, and it's totally for me, it was like, definitely like, that was another behavior that, you know, I just kind of adapted from how I grew up. But yeah, when we do that, it's like, we lose ourselves completely. We're, we just do everything, you know, we're just so focused on them that we just can't, you know, we lose sight for of everything else and so that was what kept me In it. It was like I felt like I couldn't leave because he needed me.

Stephanie: Uh,

Julie: That's what I told myself.

Stephanie: Yep. How did you finally extract yourself from that?

Julie: Well, I reached a low, like a rock bottom low, like, where one time, like, he actually, like, pushed me down.

Stephanie: Oh,

Julie: I wasn't injured, I, he didn't hit me, but he got mad at me, he, like, pushed me. And that was when I was like, This is not okay. I still couldn't leave, but I realized I needed to start getting some help.

Stephanie: Okay,

Julie: So that's when I started working with a mentor coach, someone who was in my field, but it was a medical intuitive and who helped me start clearing out energetically, all the cords that I had attached to him, that he had to tap, you know, just like that. And just bring my awareness to it, like, Oh, right.

And I did practices, breathwork practices, meditation things to just start building up my strength, my power again. Like my spine, you know, it was just like, so, Oh, and I would just start visualizing that I had like flames coming out of my spine.

Stephanie: hmm,

Julie: Strength and fire. Right. And so over time that really was helpful and I started standing up for myself more and I knew I had to get out and it was like I was crafting a plan to get out. It's like, okay, well I'm helping them with this, this and this. So if I can just get them to this part, then I can leave. But at least I had, I had like,

Stephanie: right? yep,

Julie: But before that, even I tried to break up with him like two different times and both times I got sucked back in. And each time it was even worse than before, right? Just more intense, more tumultuous. And he was cheating on me. He was lying to me. And what's so interesting is that when I started pulling away from him suddenly he couldn't get enough of me, right? And so it was like, seriously, now you, you know, so that was also another thing that kept catapulting me kind of away, which was good. Cause I could just see right through him at that point, but it took so long to get to that point.

It may have felt like it took so, you know, two and a half, almost three years, basically. But anyway, so, I had my plan. I was going to like, get him through this and then be done. And I had plans to go out for a friend's wedding out to San Francisco. And I was getting ready the night before, and he was not going with me.

So I was just whatever, doing my stuff. And I, popped in a CD back when we use CDs from a friend's wedding that I had never listened to the cD, but it was like all their favorite love songs and I put it in and I was listening to it and all of a sudden this song came on. And as soon as I heard the word, I was like, Oh my God.

And I lost it. I was just like, what am I doing? The song is called True Companion by Mark Cohn. And I realized I was like, that's what I want. I want someone who will be that for me. What am I doing with this guy? Like, he doesn't have my back at all. He's so unreliable. He's late all the time. Like just so all the things I was like, I'm, what am I doing?

And it literally was, it became the catalyst for me. The song was the final slap to fully wake me up and realize. No, what are we doing here? We're done. And so I came home broke up with him and so it was done. I was just like nope. This is what I want. I want my true companion. I know exactly what I want. And because of the work I'd done, I suddenly actually believed I knew that I was worthy of having that and that I deserved it and that I wouldn't settle for anything else. It suddenly became uncompromising. Like this is what I need and want.

Stephanie: That's a really interesting piece. I know you said you were working with a medical intuitive and and other sort of energy healers, but how did you come to the place where you knew what you wanted and you became uncompromising about it? How did you get there?

Julie: Yeah, it was literally like I refound my fire. And for the first time in my life, I started respecting myself. So, his disrespect suddenly made it so clear to me how I had been disrespecting myself, because I had been allowing him to disrespect me. And so, yeah, it was just I really feel like nothing happens by accident.

There's no coincidences. And also I feel like there was very, it was very divine how everything happened. And I really don't have answers in the sense of I don't really know because I feel like, deep down, I always have had this something that has kept me going despite all of the adversity, right?

Stephanie: Yep. Yeah. It's amazing that some of those things speak to us at certain times of our lives and at certain moments, they just become like truth.

Julie: Yes,

Stephanie: with a capital T. Yeah.

Julie: Truly. Yeah.

Stephanie: All right. So you broke up. You finally decided that, or finally came to a point where you could respect yourself and and you knew what you wanted. Where did you go from there? How did you find what you wanted?

Julie: I started online dating. Yes. But I was so clear about what I wanted.

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Julie: Now I had online dated, a dabbled in it a little bit before, but this time I was so clear about what it was that I wanted that what I found was really interesting is that when I would meet someone for a date, like I was like interviewing them.

Stephanie: Mm hmm. Mm

Julie: Is he my true companion? Could he be my true companion? Oh, definitely not. He's not my true companion. Like my, all my intuition was right there. If I sensed a red flag, even the smallest bit. No, it's not. And I suddenly stopped compromising. So again, that I was, what I, what was so clear to me is that I cannot compromise again.

There's no compromising in the sense of, of course, in relationship, you compromise, right? Like where do you want to go to eat or whatever? But like on what your truth is and what you need and what your desires, like what your true truth is, you cannot compromise on that. That was a lesson I learned from that other relationship and from everything up until then.

Intermission

Julie: And so I approached online dating from that perspective and it, I ended up being like my second full time job. So I didn't waste time chatting with people or, you know, like I was like, we need to meet. We need to meet because that's really the only way you know, you know, you can really like see the person and like, and connect and see if they're real. Because people can just, they can make up whatever they want, now more than ever.

Now there's AI. So you don't even know who you're talking to, right? Back then it was still human, but you could still say whatever you want. You know, you don't really know until you meet the person. So we'd meet for coffee. I learned early on, don't do a meal, just meet for coffee.

Mm

Or a drink, you know, but like, so basically one week I had eight dates in one week. And that was on top of my full time job. Like in the evening or lunch or whatever, you know, so, so yeah, I was, I was busy. I was busy vetting people. I

Stephanie: My last couple of years in Boston, I did some online dating too. And I remember it got to the point where I'd scheduled the early date, and the late date.

Julie: I had a brunch date, and then I had like a drink date in the evening.

Stephanie: Right. right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just crank them through. And so I love this part of your story because it's not just a fabulous Adam Sandler, Drew Barrymore movie, but you literally went on 50 first dates.

Julie: Yeah.

Stephanie: Wow. How long did that take you?

Stephanie: Holy cow. So tell me what was different when you had your first date with your husband?

Julie: The biggestest thing that was different is that I mean, I met some really fun cool people in that time, right. But when he and I met within the first hour of us talking, I had this thought crossed my mind. I could see myself marrying him. And I was like, what? No, no, no, no, No. Put that away,

Stephanie: Right.

Julie: But I had never had that happen before. Ever. So that was first little sign like, Oh, there was something about him that it was like, when I said no compromising before the took it to a whole other level of like, We just saw life through the same lens.

Stephanie: Hmm.

Julie: It was like, I didn't, I found myself not have, usually you meet someone and not always, but like, it's like you kind of have to rationalize why you're doing this or that, or why you think this or that, right. Like kind of justifying yourself. I didn't have to do any of that with him from the beginning. Like, it was just like, Oh yeah, I totally get that. You know, like, I don't know. There was just something where it was just so easy. And I could just sense that he was just such a good, sweet, nice, kind person.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Julie: And yeah, he was just a really good egg and I could just sense it immediately. And but yeah, that thought that crossed in my head, that was the biggest thing that I was like, Oh no, ignore that Julie, but it was true. That was my intuition. Like, yeah,

Stephanie: I had a really, bizarre experience the night I met my husband. So I like to say we met the old fashioned way. We met at a bar. And I was at this bar with friends and we were kind of. on a banquette, you know, against the wall around a table. And my husband, my now husband was there with friends and they were sort of over at the bar.

So I dunno, 15, 20 feet away from us. And there was a moment before, before anything kind of happened, I kind of saw him, you know, bebopping around his friends. And I, I had this very bizarre, like you you've seen it like in movies or something where like everything else just kind of gets, like out of focus and like only that like only it was just the back of him. It was like the you know, his back and his head, and I could just kind of see him. I could tell he was having fun and, and that was just kind of like, Oh, that was weird. Like what's going on with my eyes thing. And I don't know, a half an hour, an hour later, he ended up kind of within the orbit of my table and I started sassing off to him and, and he was just completely, enamored of my sass and that was kind of one of our first things, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. So sometimes weird things happen.

Julie: Yeah. It's like when you meet your, person that you're supposed to, you know, that you. Your souls are like, ah, here it

Stephanie: right. right. The really funny thing for us was that neither one of us was supposed to be at that bar that night. I was at dinner with a girlfriend a door or 2 down and a bunch of our friends came and met us, but the restaurant we were at was too busy. So they couldn't see us. So we were like, I'll just go next door to the bar and they were supposed to be at a bar across town. And they just happened. So nobody was supposed. So it was definitely a fate moment for us.

Julie: Oh,

Stephanie: Yeah, the world, the universe putting us both in in the same place.

Julie: I almost didn't go on my date too. So yeah, because I was really tired, because I had been on a date the night before and I was out really late and I had to get up really early the next morning to work. And I was like, I mean, I was up until like 3am the night before. I was really tired and then I had like, a brunch date lined up with someone else the next day and we weren't supposed to meet until nine o'clock. It was a like,

Stephanie: Yeah. The late date.

Julie: Nowadays, it's like ancient, you know so late so yeah, so I was like, I don't know so I told him I would call him when I got off of work or whatever that afternoon and when I called him and I was speaking with him, I was like, Oh, he, I really liked his voice.

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Julie: I was like, he sounds so nice. And I was like, but I'm really tired. So I was like, okay, well, let me take a nap and I'll call you back. And so anyway, thankfully

Stephanie: Disco nap for the win. Yeah.

Julie: yes, it's truth. Julie, she won out. She was like, no, Julie, you need to go on

Stephanie: Yeah. Get out of bed. How old were you when you met him? Like late thirties at this point?

Julie: So I was 37 when we met. . Mm-Hmm?

Stephanie: Yeah. And then you got married the year you were 40, right?

Julie: Yeah. So right before I turned 40 yeah, we got married in May and I turned my birthday's in July, so, yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah. Wow.

Okay. so this is a wonderful sort of arc of your romantic story and getting your feet under you from a self esteem and a respect point of view and kind of getting where you wanted to be with your relationships. But I think there's a parallel story here as well around work and around burnout, right?.

Julie: Yeah. So. All along the way, when I was working as an acupuncturist in this clinic in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, I was really busy. I was working, getting great experience, seeing a ton of patients every week. And because I was, always looking for approval. And in fact, you know, like the same thing that was driving me in relationships was driving me in work as well.

So, this deficiency that I felt inside, I felt like I had to prove myself. So I, I've worked a lot and I started getting really exhausted from it. Now, granted, I also was dating this person who was totally like draining my energy as well, right? That I was giving my energy to really is what it was.

So the combination really took a toll and I started having adrenal fatigue and just full on burnout, exhaustion and insomnia and all of these other symptoms that were coming up. And so that was happening. I will say that when my husband and I, when we got together and we moved in together, it was about seven months after we met.

And I remember waking up one morning that January after we just moved in together. And I had this thought, well, now what am I going to do with my life? Cause I had spent my whole life looking for a loving relationship and this beautiful partnership and I had that. And so that created this spark for me of like looking for other things to do.

Because I knew I there was something more for me. It's what I felt

Stephanie: hmm.

Julie: You know, it wasn't just from overworking I mean, yes, in theory, yeah. If you stop working and you'll feel better, but no, there's more because like I said I, I would go on vacation and then I would come back and it'd be like, Oh, right back at it. Or I would, you know, change up my hours.

And so there was this misalignment underneath going on and really it was about, again, me and my relationship to myself and lack of love for myself. So, you know, I was doing all these things to manage the burnout. I was taking the supplements for my adrenal fatigue. I was trying to be mindful about my diet.

I doing the right exercise. I was meditating, I was doing all these things and it was, I was coping. I was managing it, but it wasn't going away. I still didn't have inspiration. I was like, just, Oh. I just, I would, you know, like the work that I did, I really loved, it was really a magical work.

And yet there would be days when I just, oh, I don't want to go to work today. You know, it's like what I always would say, I'll always know if there's a problem you know, something's not right if I don't want to go to work, cause I have an amazing, I do amazing stuff. So that was, that started happening on the regular and I was like, Oh, okay. There's something else going on here. what I learned over time was that all of the things that I was doing for myself were really, they weren't from a place of love.

Stephanie: What were they from? Where were they coming from?

Julie: Fear and anxiety. Like, if I don't do this, then I have to do this or else. The scarcity, not enoughness. You know, it wasn't because, Oh my gosh, body, I honor you. I love you. And I know that this is what will make you so happy right now. Such a different energy than if I don't do this, then I have to fit this in because if I don't do this, then I'm not going to sleep tonight or I, I won't be able to make it through my day today.

Stephanie: Yeah. Okay.

Julie: Such a different energy.

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Julie: Yeah. So that, I believe, is from my own experience and from working with my clients, that's truly the answer to healing burnout is learning to love yourself, all the way around a hundred percent inside out.

Stephanie: Wow. That's an interesting take on burnout that I have not heard before. I'm nearly speechless. Which is hard to do.

Julie: Yeah, no, it's not talked about. Well, they talked about self care,

Stephanie: Right.

Julie: but self care. I was champion at self care, man. I can tell you, I did everything. And I'm a healthcare provider, you know, like I knew everything to do and I was doing it all. Yeah. But I was, I was doing self care from a place of scarcity, not from love. That's that missing piece. We have to take that jump and make that self care be out of true love for ourselves, respect and honor for ourselves.

Stephanie: So I can see some of this because, I say this quite often. I manage a couple of chronic illnesses, and have been, somewhat debilitated for about seven years now. And so I do a great job of taking care of myself and doing all the things. and So I'm, now, I'm trying to put that hat on and just say like, right, am I doing all the self care to manage the illness, versus doing all that to love and honor my body. That's that. Wow. I'm going to have to sit with that one for a while. Cause I think, well, of course I love myself. That's why I'm doing all these things. But when you say it like that, there's, there's a little, there's definitely a leap there between one and the other.

Julie: Yeah. And the thing is, is that a lot of us, most people, not saying everyone, but most people actually have kind of a loathing relationship with our bodies. Why is my body not cooperating with me? Why do I have to deal with this? Why isn't my body stronger? What's wrong with my body? What's wrong with you? Right. We look at it from that perspective and it's, that has been a huge lesson for me over these years is you know, our bodies are sentient, like our mind and body cannot be separated. It's one. So our feelings about our body, our body senses.

Stephanie: Right, right, right. You can't hide them. It's interesting because I, I, definitely have, as somebody, who's got a background as a writer and also somebody who's got a background and lots of personal growth and personal development, you know, different classes, mentors, modalities, et cetera. I understand, I know, and understand the power of language, which is why I say I manage chronic illnesses instead of I suffer from, and I've also, I've also had people reflect back to me that I do a good job of, you know, there's no victim hood. There's no, know, woe was me?

It's just, this is, this is kind of where, you know, what I'm dealing with, you know, in this phase of my life. But I I have had to think specifically about, you know, don't get me wrong, there are days you get frustrated and days you mostly, I wish I could do more. But I do have to look at it and thank it and say, you know, you did a great job today, or I actually just had that day yesterday I was out.

I had a surgery in the fall. And so I went to physical therapy and after physical therapy, I went out and I did four errands. Stopped at Target. Stopped at REI. I stopped at Whole Foods. I stopped at Staples. And at every stop, I thought, Oh my God, a couple of years ago, I would not have had the energy for this. Like, go you. It was actually joyful to think like, look at me, I can go out and go to four places after work. You know, it was, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm going to have to sit with your, nuance there because, yeah. I'll do anything to, you know, continue to improve and, and, you know, gain strength and vitality. So if it means I have to make another leap, I'm happy to do it. Mm.

Julie: yeah, you know, it's a

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Julie: It's a practice. So,

Stephanie: These things build on each other. Like you don't end up getting all the way there in your first pass at it. You learn something and then you go again and then you learn something and you add it to your mix and you learn something.

And, oh, I, when I talked to Stephanie Rose of a bunch of episodes ago, she said that, you know, life was a process of learning and forgetting. And I, so you forget some of the things that worked well for you and you have to remember them. And so, yeah. yeah. Okay, so back to you, though. Where did this take you professionally?

Julie: Yes. So ultimately this recognition of what was going on. And also, there was another part of the understanding of where the misalignment was. So I knew I was definitely coming at it from a place of scarcity and, you know, not from love. And then I also realized so I had gotten into, the Akashic records.

I started learning how to read the Akashic records. And when I did it all myself and understood what my soul gifts were, what I found was that the way I was showing up in my practice, my acupuncture practice, was very misaligned for me for my gifts. And because I love to give people practical tools that they can use to heal themselves and really take the healing into their own hands. And it's kind of opposite of what people come in for. Well, our whole health care system, you know, in general is just about, Oh we'll, we'll take care of you. Right. But we'll just give you drugs. We'll give you this. Right. So, acupuncture is amazing, right? It's really helpful for so many different things. And I love it for that. And it also, you know, many people who seek it out are really, they're desperate and they're, it's like their last resort and they're looking for help and nothing wrong with that at all. And I would give them all of this stuff that they could do on their own and all of these different things. And then they would come back next week and they would have, you know, yeah, exactly. they

Stephanie: everything you said. They wouldn't have tried anything or they might've tried one thing half heartedly once, and it didn't work perfectly. And so they said, forget it. It doesn't work.

Julie: Yes. Not everyone did that. I had a definitely had some who really were excited about taking their health into their own hands, but the vast majority of people who come in are not really looking for that. They're just looking for relief. And for me, that was a misalignment because I was putting in all of this energy to help them. And I wasn't receiving that energy back in the sense of like, they weren't showing up for themselves. Right. And so when I started understanding how that was playing out in my day to day as well, then it really allowed me the opportunity to step back and reevaluate how I was doing everything. And ultimately I ended up closing my practice and by closing my practice, when I did that, then it freed us up to no longer have to live where we were living because my husband already worked remotely and I was the one who added the day to day stuff that had to go in.

And so it freed us up. So we ended up moving out to this beautiful town out on the coast of North Carolina, and we've been out here for almost two years now. The move in, just kind of create a whole new life in this new area really opened up doors that I never dreamed would be possible before when we were living where we were living.

And I had no intention of actually seeing patients again, but I ended up doing it. So I teach Kundalini yoga and I, before I even moved here I, found a studio, a yoga studio that was open to me teaching there. And so I had that set up. And so I started teaching classes and she, the owner of the studio said, you know, we have this room here that you could use to see patients if you wanted.

And I was like, not interested. Thank you. But how much is the rent by it, by the way, you know, and, just, she's like, we really need to do this. It's a small area and there really aren't any alternative providers out here, or very few. So what I realized in the next few weeks is that I could approach this from a totally different way.

You know, like I don't have to be that acupuncturist. I'm here. They know me as a Kundalini yoga teacher. I happen to have all of these other tools that I bring in, you know, Oh, by the way, I also do this. And. So I realized I could also set it up differently in that I also do medical Qigong, which is energy work.

I do sound healing. I do all of these different things and so I re envisioned how it could look. Before I felt very much like my practice had to be the way it was because that's how everyone else was doing

Stephanie: Right.

Julie: And so I'm so grateful that I had, you know, all of the, you know, the burnout, the understanding my gifts and stuff, because then I realized, Oh, I can do this very differently in a way that really feeds me.

And so that's what I've done. And it's been, so great. I've been doing it now for almost, you know, I just really been seeing about a year and a half now. And it's so fun. I really love it. And I leave every day feeling energized, not burnt out. Right. And so It's really magical.

Stephanie: Wow. It's so interesting the way you describe your practice and how this new practice is so different from the old practice because it just aligns so well with this transition from relying on external authorities for what's right to trusting your own intuition, experience, authority to do what we think is best for ourselves.

Right? So, for so long, and in these younger adult years, we're listening to external authorities. Tell us how things should be be done and what you should be doing to be successful. And it's not until we really start to trust ourselves that, we're able to build something that really fits us and really suits us, which it sounds like you've really done

Julie: Yes. Yes. And I love that you brought that up, Stephanie, because that's a hundred percent. I mean, I was like, you know, square peg trying to fit into this round hole you know, the whole time. And it was like, what's wrong with me? It's like, what's wrong with me. Why isn't it working for me?

Right. That's what we asked ourselves. Like, well, what's wrong? Like we immediately go to, well, there's something wrong with us. When really it's like, no, we're so much bigger than that. We're so much more. And by trying to squeeze ourselves into this tiny little thing, it's like doing a, everyone, the world, a huge disservice by you and not really showing up fully as you.

Stephanie: Yeah,

Julie: But we're not, you know, that's not really shown as an option to us when we're younger. And even when you, if you are going out on your own in a business or as an entrepreneur, it's really hard sometimes to break out of the mold that has been set. All these trainings, all these courses, all these things, right?

It's like, no, you don't belong in any of those things because you're totally unique. And, you have so many things to offer that only you can bring to the table into the world.

Stephanie: Yeah. I started my marketing agency 17 years ago. And for many years, in the first decade or so, there are a couple of guys in the community who own marketing agencies that are much bigger than mine. And I would watch them and watch what they did. And, for so long, I thought I must be doing it wrong.

Because look at them and look at how they do it and look at look at the way they're building their businesses. Meanwhile, I would also out of the other side of my mouth say, I don't want a 40 person business. Like, I would never want a 40 person business. Would I like to grow my business? Sure. And it has over the years. Interestingly, it started growing more when I got sick, it was like the less I could like, dig, dig, dig, work, work, work, try, try, try, push, push, push. The less I did that, the more the business flourished, which

Julie: So telling

Stephanie: So just one of those lessons that it's like, you know, but for so long, I had been watching these guys build their beautiful, wonderful, successful businesses, adore and respect both of them. But I I thought I was the one that was wrong. Instead of realizing and at the same time, also knowing there's plenty of room for everybody. I wasn't at a place where I was like, Oh, if they grow, I can't grow. I, I wasn't there, but I was, I had to get around to no, look, Steph, if you do it your way, if you actually don't push so hard, things go better and you get better clients and, our clients have been with us for, almost a decade now, a bunch of them. And it's like, that's pretty darn good, but it's not the way they do business. Yeah, I had to learn how to do it my way. And that, took a long time. It took getting sick for me to really realize that. Interesting though. Silver linings.

Julie: Yeah totally and also probably a gift for your body

Stephanie: For sure. Yeah. we could talk for hours about my body and my life. Let's not do that today, but maybe another day.

Julie: Yeah another time

Stephanie: So here you are, how old were you when you started your business?

Julie: Okay. So the re envisioned business. Yeah, so I was, let's see, that was two years ago. So I guess 47, 48, 47,

Yeah.

Stephanie: Okay. But you had a version where you went out on your own first, but it was still much like mine, right? Very sort of traditional, looked like everybody else's.

Stephanie: and you are 41.

Julie: Yes I was 41. Yep.

Stephanie: It's so interesting to put the filter of this transition over people's stories because it's it's like everything is happening in exactly the right sort of order for this transition, right? You did go out on your own, but yet there was still more evolution to be done.

And now to reimagine it and relaunch it in your late forties it's just so interesting to see, like, from, you know, 35 to 47, like how your life had just changed completely.

Julie: Oh my gosh. So completely said my life has changed. I've changed. I'm definitely not the same person I was.

Stephanie: Right. Wow. Well, Julie, I just adore your story and I, I want to thank you so much for sharing it and really just in so much detail and you've been very, very generous with your story and your background. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Julie: Oh my gosh, it's been so much fun to be here with you and an honor and privilege. So yeah, many thanks for the opportunity to share the story. Hopefully it inspires and helps others.