Stephanie:

Elizabeth: Hi Elizabeth. Welcome to the show. Oh, it's so lovely to be here, Stephanie. Thanks for having me.

Stephanie: It's great to have you. Ifeel like you and I have taken a bit of time to actually get scheduled. So I've been looking forward to this for quite a while. You have a Jekyll and Hyde almost as part of your transition.

Elizabeth: So, why don't we start by, tell me a little bit about the forces that shaped you into who you were when our story begins in your mid thirties. How did you get to be that person? So mid thirties, I was, you know, single mum.

I had all my stuff together. I, was doing really well in my business. I was a remedial massage therapist and an energy healer, and lived in the beautiful tropics of far North Queensland. Really healthy and all the things. Great kids. And yeah, I think it was mid to late thirties that I met this beautiful man.

Stephanie: Hmm.

Elizabeth: And you know, he was drop dead gorgeous. He was, a musician, so he played guitar and, drums and he was a backpacker, so he was traveling and he just seems to be this, you know, eclectic type, beautiful,creative being.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Shone this light and all the things. And he just drew me in. And he was actually younger than me.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: And so at first I was really not interested. He was doing everything he possibly could to lure me in. And he did a really good job.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth: And, yeah, we got together. Everything was fine to start with, but then things started to shift.

Stephanie: What was the courtship like? Because he was younger than you and you had young children. And he was that sort of breezy artistic guy. So how was it that he drew you in? Cause it, the age difference, if I remember correctly is like 12 years,

Elizabeth: Yes, yeah, absolutely. It is. And my thing is, you know, like as a spiritual energy healer, I was already on a journey and had, this dream that I was going to meet this guy. And also through the healings that I was doing, we also had the experience, there was me and a, and a little mini group that I was in, we were all doing past life regression track, and it had been sort of predestined that I was going to meet someone and have a child.

And so I met him through one of the group, like this woman and, her daughter who had been traveling and met him through the travels. So the courtship was, the first thing, I met him exactly like my dream from three to four years ago.

The only difference was that I had said in the dream, Oh, here he comes now. And in reality, my friend Jolene had said it to me because they wanted me to meet this guy, Toby, and everyone was sort of talking about how amazing he is and dah, dah, dah, and I kept on missing getting the opportunity to talk to him and then the day that I met him, it was exactly like this dream.

Stephanie: Mm.

Elizabeth: He started finding out what sort of music I was into and playing that sort of music and, you know, just making little, remarks and feeding my ego. That's what he was doing. He was feeding my ego.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: We seem to have a lot in common. Already everyone had been talking about how good he was. So, you know, you trust your friends and all the things.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: He also was really good with my kids.

Stephanie: That was my next question.

Elizabeth: Yeah, it was really good with my kids. There's some great photos, you know, he was showing my, my son how to play guitar. He was playing soccer with him and, he got on really well in the family. So, you know, he ticked all the boxes, right?

Stephanie: Yeah. So how long did you guys date?

Elizabeth: We dated for

I think it was maybe two years. What happened was, I went over to Germany, he was, German,

Stephanie: Mm

Elizabeth: and I went over to Germany with him and met his family.

Stephanie: Yep.

Elizabeth: And that was beautiful. Got to, to meet, all his family, and they, they loved me, and, took me on board and all the things. And he met my family, and then when we got back, I came back before him, I think it was a week later, his mother suddenly passed.

Stephanie: Oh.

Elizabeth: Yeah, and so there was a bit of trauma and then next thing I know I'm pregnant. So it was like just one thing after the other.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: You know, through that process I actually lost the baby. I found out I had a 15 centimeter fibroid and it was a huge journey to go through that. It was actually quite an interesting journey because I was able to clear it and release it by myself, but I lost Sarah at, 20 weeks.

Stephanie: Mm. I'm so sorry.

I think,

Mm.

Elizabeth: And I think that that, you know, from a spiritual point of view, it was very, sad and traumatic and all the things, but really when she came out, the very first thing that, that came out of my head was this is all meant to be, just felt at peace, really. It was quite an interesting process. I had the experience of really connecting with my mom because my mom had lost a baby before me.

Stephanie: hmm.

Elizabeth: So I'd had this realization of the trauma that she went through. And, you know, so it helped me bond with her a little bit more.

Stephanie: Interesting.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Which was, which was beautiful.

But what happened was we then, you know, decided, well, this has happened and this has happened. We knew we were going to get married. Why don't we, finish the year off by getting married. And so we got married.

Stephanie: And you were what? 35 then?

Elizabeth: I think, yeah, 35, 36, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And so, it was a challenging year. He lost his mom. He lost the baby. But then you decide to finish the year out with something joyous by becoming a family. Then what? Well, this is where it gets really sticky, right?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Because it was like a light switch went off. All of a sudden, he just completely changed. And it was like he was, Jekyll and Hyde. It, he just, it was like he had a definition of what marriage was supposed to be. And all of a sudden he changed the way he was behaving and what he wanted me and my children to do and our roles and our behaviors and all of those things.

Yeah, all of a sudden, I had to cook and clean and make sure everything was good. And the kids had done their homework and that they were doing work, in the house and all the things. And it got to this point where the kids didn't want to come out of their bedroom because he just kept on hassling them. You know, you need to do this, you need to do that and you haven't done this and blah, blah, blah. And it just got really, it got to the point, never had, anxiety before in my life. And I had quite a few friends that were, psychologists.

Stephanie: Hmm.

Elizabeth: There was three of them, one of them handed me this piece of paper that had the, domestic abuse cycle on it. I went, Hmm, that does look a little bit familiar, you know,

Stephanie: yeah.

Elizabeth: And then, another one said to me,do you think that maybe he's, got Asperger's? And I'm like, well, what's that? And what does that look like? And, you know, what are the symptoms? And she's sharing and I'm going, yep. Yep. Oh my god. Yep. Oh, no.

Stephanie: What was that word you just said? What did he have?

Elizabeth: Asperger's. These days it's called, high functioning autism, but back then, yeah.

Stephanie: would have pronounced it Asperger's. Okay,

Elizabeth: Asperger's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yep.

Stephanie: No, no, it's just, it's, you

Elizabeth: It just

Stephanie: two countries

Elizabeth: Language.

Stephanie: language, right?

Elizabeth: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

Stephanie: that I was, I was hearing you the right way.

Okay. so your friend thought that he might have a version of an autistic,

Elizabeth: Yes.

Stephanie: Okay.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Stephanie: And

that felt,

Elizabeth: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It, it like started ticking the boxes and I'm like, how did I miss that? And, what I came to was that because there was a little bit of a language barrier. And he was also, had that sort of musical, it was, he was very, very, focused on his music and an absolute talent, absolutely amazing on the guitar, had already created a couple of, CDs, he, he was, you know, a bit eccentric when it came to all of that.

So. I missed it because of that, you know.

Stephanie: Right.

Let me go back to one thing when you talked about him being, very rigid about the house having to run a certain way and you needing to, have dinner on the table when he got home and, cleaning and the kids had their chores and they had to do their homework. Was he also, so playing a role in that or was, was, was he doing his quote unquote part in the household or was he just dictating what everybody else should be doing?

Elizabeth: No, he was doing his role.

Stephanie: Okay.

Elizabeth: We had a bit of a joke between me and the kids because, they'd come in from school and they'd say, who's making dinner tonight? And, if I said Toby, their face would drop, you know, because they knew that it meant it was either a rice dish or a noodle dish. And the difference was, one had rice and one had noodles.

Stephanie: The whole process was quite interesting because I'd separated from the father of my kids 10 years prior.

Yeah.

Elizabeth: So I'd been by myself looking after me and the kids and really sorting myself out and working on myself personally and all the things.

And so when this all started happening, I didn't pick it up as there's something wrong here with him or with the relationship. I was in that place of self reflection and, is there something wrong with me

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: that I can't hold a relationship? Why is this happening again?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: I'd been in an emotionally abusive relationship in my youth with the father of my kids.

Stephanie: Mm.

Elizabeth: I'm like, I've done all the work. I've done the spiritual stuff. I'm in a really good space. How did this happen again?

Stephanie: Yeah. How did it happen again? Do you, did you ever figure that out?

Elizabeth: I got to this point where I was starting to have panic attacks.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: You know, like freaking out, like, Oh, I've got to get home and, we haven't done this and we haven't done that before he gets home from work.

Stephanie: Hmm.

Elizabeth: And I stayed. I stayed and I stayed and I stayed, even though it was detrimental to me and my kids. And I was like, I've got to work out what's going on here becasue

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: I don't want to create it in my next relationship.

What happened was my daughter left home, she moved, like an hour and a half away, with her dad. And so it was a really sticky, horrible time. I'm 53 now, but back then it was, it was crazy. So what happened was I took her to this healing weekend, it was, a abdominal self care massage.

And we were learning how to do massage on our stomach. And through that process, I had this healing on my womb where I realized that as a healer, I was trying to heal everyone.

When I realized that's what was going on, and that everyone has the opportunity to heal themselves, and who am I to think that I have the right to heal everyone?

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: Like that's a bit egotistical and you know, not everyone's up for healing, right?

Stephanie: Yes.

Elizabeth: When I realized what was going on, I literally went home and the next day I told him and I said, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I'm not interested in being with you the way you are, and you're not interested in changing, and I respect that now.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: Respect him for being whoever he wants to be, but just not in my space.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth: So,

Stephanie: that's a tough place to come to.

Elizabeth: So many of us, cause I know I have done it as well and from a little bit of a different angle, but, you're talking about healing someone from a healer perspective. And from a more lay person perspective, it's like, I want to fix you.My version of it was, I want to love you so much that you'll fix yourself. So that's a really wild place to come to of respect for you are who you are, and that's fine. It's just no good for me.

Absolutely, because I just, I realized as a healer, you go, where is the root cause of this?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: I had grown up with parents where my dad was sick on a kidney machine. He got sick before I remember him being healthy. I was like two or three when he got sick, and he died when I was 15.

Stephanie: oh, wow.

Elizabeth: So I had actually spent my whole life, I mean, I've got a photo of me at 12 years old, putting all the tubes together and putting the saline in and, you know, getting the bubbles out of his dialysis machine.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: And my mom was never home. She was working to keep the family going.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: And so, you know, us women in our family, generationally, looked after our family. And so, I looked at, well, the, the father of my kids, he, was an alcoholic and so I was looking after him and here I was creating the same pattern again.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: So I cleaned up a lot of other stuff. I'd gone from being very shy and submissive and doing whatever I was told in the previous relationship to being a strong, empowered woman.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: And then went, how did this happen?

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: Here's this little tweak.

Stephanie: Right,

Elizabeth: This,

Stephanie: little piece I forgot to clean up.

Elizabeth: Yes.

Stephanie: Or didn't know I had to clean up.

Elizabeth: Yes.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh, that's so frustrating to, to have done all of that work and to have seen so many changes in yourself and, to have known that you've evolved and really, you know, stepped into yourself and then to, to trip and be, be fall back into a pattern that you didn't even know was there. That's, that's so frustrating.

Elizabeth: It's, it's very interesting because we all think that we're going to get somewhere at the end

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: and it's not true. We are always going to trip.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: It's just the way life is. And from an energetic and soul level, those trips are those parts of our soul that came to correct anything that's holding us back from truly expressing our higher self.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: you know, our potential. And as you go along, we're always working on the things that are here to correct our, you know, our souls, discrepancies.

Stephanie: And, and those are the things that call for our attention to be attended to,to go in and look at those things.

You, left him, you were 40, right? So that was, that was like right there at the milestone moment. You said, that's it. I'm done.

Elizabeth: So that's a little bit of a story too, because what happened was, I think it was maybe three weeks later that I actually turned 40.

So when we separated and, he left cause it was my house. He left the house and, he just kept on coming back and back and back

Stephanie: Mm

Elizabeth: and, you know, I can't believe we're doing this and I, you know, what can I change? And I'll take you to Thailand. I don't know where that came from, but

Stephanie: Right,

Elizabeth: he wanted to take me on holidays. And all these things trying to get me back. And then this one day he comes to me and he gets me to have a coffee with him. Are you sure that there's nothing I can do for us to stay together? And I said, no, I've made my mind up. It's, it's done. The next day was my 40th birthday and the next day I found out he got with a 21 year old.

Stephanie: Oh, God.

Elizabeth: And so then a whole different set of things comes up for me to deal with. You can imagine that was a bit of fun. Yeah, it was really challenging, you know, like all of the women stuff.

Stephanie: right? Yeah,

Elizabeth: Oh, big time

Stephanie: Here I am, I turned 40, and he traded me in for a 21 year

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Stephanie: The story as old as time.

Elizabeth: And it was crazy too because as I'd gone through this process with the fibroid and all the things that had gone on with that, I started painting this painting. And one of our dear friends who's now passed was a, an exceptional artist and musician. And actually I met him through Toby and, he was helping me learn how to paint this amazing, you know, healing tree that I was creating that had sort of come and sprung up from, the process of, losing Sarah and the fibroid. And so I was doing really well, but I didn't know what I was doing.

It took me a whole year to paint that painting because I was like, I am not touching that again. I don't know what I'm doing. And luckily I had this beautiful 80 year old man that just gently took me through the process and encouraged me and he'd say, just bring it over and let me check. Oh, look how good you did this. And,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Like he was just so beautiful and he got me to put my, you know, paintbrush back in paint again, and I was able to finish that painting. But it was, yeah, it was a very trying time.

Stephanie: Yeah, I'll bet. Because now you have left a marriage. You've realized thatthere's a pattern here with men that you're, going through. You've, done some amount of damage to your relationship with your daughter, who's moved with who

Elizabeth: Out.

Stephanie: you've already said is, you know, an emotionally abusive kind of person, so that can't be a great thing.

So, so now you're 40 and have to work your way through all of this back into health and steadiness on your two feet. How do you do that in addition to your painting?

Elizabeth: It was a really challenging time.

I moved out of that house, you know, I, I separated everything. I had to rebuild my relationship with my kids.

Stephanie: Yep.

Elizabeth: And the trust, because they felt that I had chosen Toby over them, of course. And I had to pick my my feet up, you know, and I'm just trying to think how I got through it. Friends were really solid in my relationship, with,my community.

Stephanie: Yep.

Elizabeth: And so that was really good. Whenever I felt challenged, I would go and speak to a friend. Another thing that I actually did was I don't know if you've ever heard of, cranial sacral

Stephanie: I

Elizabeth: therapy. Yeah,

Stephanie: Yeah,

Elizabeth: So I went and had a cranial sacral, session once a fortnight for about three months,

Stephanie: yep.

Elizabeth: to realign my body with my emotions, as my emotions were going through. I allowed myself to be emotional. I allowed myself to go through the process, and my body to go through the process.

Stephanie: And it was quite liberating because it took me a long time and I actually decided that I didn't want to be with anyone again for a while.

Yeah.

Elizabeth: However, because of that relationship and because of the layers that I had been able to clear and recognize because, as a spiritual being, you get to recognize that there's patterns of behavior, right? And that they stem from previous experiences, generally conditioning from your childhood.

It could be, epigenetics, it could be generational, finding the same pattern going through your generations. And the whole process of letting go of all of that supported me to never create that relationship again.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: So life became quite busy for me while I was up in Far North Queensland, but long story short, I ended up needing to move back to Sydney and New South Wales, which is about halfway down on the Australian coast.

Stephanie: Okay.

Elizabeth: And so, I moved down there to look after my mum, who was not doing too well. Long story short, she ended up having a heart attack. I looked after her, and then she ended up being in a nursing home. And through that process, I was like, I don't feel like I want to go back up to far north Queensland, but I really love the tropics and the rainforest and the beach and all the, the waterfalls and, and I found an area down here that was exactly like that. Beaches, waterfalls, rainforest, all of the things.

Stephanie: Nice.

Elizabeth: One day walking down the beach, after a long day online, just before I made my dinner, I thought I'd just go and get my feet wet because I, you know, lived close to the beach.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Only one on the beach and this beautiful man walks past, we start chatting and he lived in an adjacent street. We found out we both love taking photos of sunrises and sunsets. And he showed me some places that I hadn't been before and, cause I was new to the area. And yeah, we're still, we're engaged and, my maiden name was Payne, P A Y N E,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: His last name is Make Peace.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: So, I've never created that sort of relationship again. He is definitely completely opposite to, both of those other relationships that I had.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Hmm.

Stephanie: But it was a matter of, and this is, this is really the challenging part is, is identifying the pattern and the source of the pattern.

Elizabeth:

Stephanie: That's why I love sharing these stories because you tell your story, it's so clear. You talk about, the daughter of your kids was a, an alcoholic and you had to take care of him. Andyour husband was,a young man with, very clear ideas of what the marriage should look like, right?

Elizabeth: Yes.

Stephanie: He was beholden to should

Elizabeth: Yes.

Stephanie: because he was so young,

Elizabeth: in addition to any of his other issues. But then all of a sudden you say, well, you know, my dad was sick from before I even knew, right. And, and you took care of him. So it's so interesting to be able to not only identify the pattern, but then identify the source of the pattern.

Hmm.

Stephanie: It makes perfect sense. Your mom had to scramble to work real hard to make sure that, there was enough money to take care of the house, take care of your dad, to put food on the table, all of it, right? And so you were left to take care of your dad, which created this pattern, this thought inside you that said, I have to take care of men.

Elizabeth: Yes. And, and not just men or like, because at 12 years old, I was cooking and cleaning and shopping and,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: all the things. And I didn't know my mum. It was, it was actually in that era, that, late 30s, early 40s,

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: I actually recognised that mum wasn't there for me

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: because she had been thrown into a role. I've got two older brothers. So, you know, she married a healthy, strong man.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: And so by the time I came along, and here he is sick, I can imagine that, that would have been very challenging for her. Oh, now I've, I've got to look after and be the support of, my dad was the house mom, right?

Stephanie: Yeah,

Elizabeth: And so, but he was sick, so he couldn't do much.

And so there was a whole process of recognising ah, the strength of the woman, ah, now I can heal all the damage I've had from my mum that I felt neglected. She was actually supporting and caring for me. I just didn't realise it, you know, and

Stephanie: like

Elizabeth: It didn't feel like it.

Stephanie: it wasn't what you thought you wanted or needed, but she was on a different level. she was sort of on the executive level and you were feeling like you weren't getting your emotional needs met.

Elizabeth: Mm. Well, she, she was, you know, I can imagine, being thrown into that role. She most probably was scrambling herself, you know.

Stephanie: A hundred percent.

Elizabeth: Yeah,

Stephanie: A hundred percent.

Elizabeth: and

Stephanie: those days, cause you and I are about the same age, right? You have, you have older brothers, but it's not their job

Elizabeth: no,

Stephanie: care. Yeah.

Elizabeth: you, it wasn't until I moved back down just, you know, what, I think it's 10 years now since I've been here in New South Wales.

When I first moved down and started looking after mum, it dawned on me that actually, because as soon as I walked in again, straight into, I've got to look after the family.

Even my brothers went into that space, even though they had wives and their own lives. And it dawned on me, ah, it's because I'm a woman. I didn't realize that, you know. I didn't realize it was because I was a woman, but I used to make dinner for, I don't remember one of my brothers living at home.

He left very early, but I used to make dinner for, the family and take my brother, his meal to him in his bedroom.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Didn't think anything of it, right? Like, yeah, so

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: It's very different these days. Yes.

Stephanie: Thank goodness.

Elizabeth: Mm.

Stephanie: Right.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Stephanie: bit more balance there, but I really love how, clearly you've, told the story because I think that people listening will be able to really use this example as,we always have things that hang us up.

Right. And, and we, when we finally are ready to see the patterns, you've just shared such a wonderful example of how to identify the pattern and then go and find the source of it.

Elizabeth: Mm.

Stephanie: Because really the knowledge of those things will set you most of the way free.

Elizabeth: Mm.

Stephanie: Once you're aware of them then you can start making choices or you can start working on whichever of the modalities is is the most appealing to you

Elizabeth: To you.

Stephanie: by way of healing or growth or personal development or therapy, whatever it may be we all have our own path to to that healing place but the awareness is really the key door opening moment, I think.

Elizabeth: Mm. Absolutely.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: If I've got any advice for anyone listening, it's looking at the pattern, so what's your most challenging relationship that you've got at the moment, and what's the pattern? Why is this person in your movie, is one of the things I say to my clients,

Stephanie: Yep.

Elizabeth: is this person in your movie,

Stephanie: What

Elizabeth: and

Stephanie: playing?

Elizabeth: Yeah, what role are they playing and what, you know, is there a, a pattern with that person and other people in your life

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: that's holding you back from really shining brightly and really connecting to your highest potential?

Stephanie: Yeah. You're the

Elizabeth: it's an important,

Stephanie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Elizabeth, I love this story and I, thank you so much for sharing it. I love the end of the story, this peace that has come over your pain. This man that has made peace with your pain.

Yes.

Stephanie: A beautiful way to end this story. And so, I just, I want to thank you for being so generous with your story today.

Elizabeth: Yeah, thank you Stephanie. It's been a pleasure talking to you.