Stephanie: Hi Angela. Welcome to the show.

Angela: Thank you so much for having me today.

Stephanie: Oh, it's my pleasure. I love having conversations with newly minted 40 year olds because everything is so fresh and new and sort of happening as we speak. So I'm real excited to get into your story. Tell me when you turned 40.

Angela: So I turned 40 last year actually, so I'm very new,

Stephanie: Yeah. Not yet. 41 though, right?

Angela: Almost about two months out, so I'm getting there.

All right, perfect. Okay, so let's start by, tell me a little bit about the forces that shaped you into who you were when our story begins. What's the prologue? Okay. So, you know, I think,for me before I turned 40 and just the way that my life,was just kind of shaping into the person that I was becoming and who I am now,I think it definitely goes back to probably when I was about 11 or 12, andmy parents and I, we moved to the states.

Just really that I feel like that's where my life began and, you know, just growing up here and still trying to manage the cultural expectations of my parents. And I think that for the first 20 years of my life, well, I would say first 30 plus years of my life, I really was living the life that I don't think that I even questioned.

So what I mean by that is, you know, like the expectations were already set. And those expectations were basically that, I have to do well in school. I have to go to a good university, get mycollege education and thenget my Master's or MBA, which I did, and have an office job, have a corporate job at the companies that people, especially my parents and their friends would recognize.

Right. So. I feel that it was a lot of checking the box, you know, checking, okay, I had my list, like I have to do this. By the time that I reached 30, I have to make a six figure salary. By the time I'm 35, I have to be a vp. And I had all these milestones in my head and I didn't question it. I just really didn't.

And,I had the opportunity to work in New York City and Los Angeles and major cities. There were moments where I thought, oh, I guess this is the life, you know, and that's what you see in the movies, right? Professional women going to the office with their coffee and it's okay if you're stressed out and burned out. That's just part of life. And,you know, just keep climbing up the ladder and if you're not happy with your job now you just keep moving up, moving up, and you will get better.

Stephanie: Where did you and your parents immigrate from?

Angela: From Korea, from South Korea.

Stephanie: Okay. And what brought you to the States?

Angela: So, it was really for my education,which is really interesting because South Korea's education system is pretty strong.

But I think that they realized that long term I would have better advantages being here. And also, we really just wanted to come and it's that, you know, the classic story of the American dream, right? They felt that this is the land of opportunities and why not let my daughter take advantage of that?

And they felt that maybe in places like South Korea and others, the opportunities will be quite limiting at some point. Whereas here, there's truly the belief that, if you work hard, you can pretty much go as far as you want, whereas that's not the case.

Stephanie: Okay. are you an only child?

I am. Okay, so I don't know a lot about South Korean culture, but would the path have been the same there as it was when you came to America?

Angela: Probably. I think that they have tremendous amount of emphasis on having a professional corporate job. Maybe over there it's more of an, of course you have to go to school, of course you have to get your master's. Of course you have to get a great job, preferably in an office. Like that's just how they perceive success. I don't think that they're necessarily,supportive of entrepreneurship or small businesses.

I think that the way that they perceive that is very different than I would say here.Whereas here I do feel like there's a bit of a freedom to choose and explore. You are given the opportunity to explore what you wanna do, but I think, at least for me, the pressure that I was feeling is that okay, my parents pretty much left their lives behind.

Stephanie: I saw it as they give up everything, they left their family behind, their friends, everything behind to come here for me. So I felt that tremendous amount of pressure. So, I had to quickly learn the language and as I was learning, I had to take honors and AP classes at the same time, to save money for college, so all of that, and again, I just didn't question it. This is what they want and they want a stability, Were your parents professionals in South korea?

Angela: So ironically there were business owners.

Stephanie: Oh.

Angela: And that's part of that story for me as well. So, because they were business owners and they were very successful, until they weren't. And I think they realized how quickly you could lose everything.

So I think having gone through that experience for them. They owned multiple businesses and, when things were really difficult, they realized that they could lose everything at once. I think that's exactly the opposite of what they wanted for me. For me, it was all about having a professional job.

You have to work in an office and don't work for yourself. You have to work for somebody else. You know? So they saw that as stability and, frankly, I believed it. I believed it for the first 15 plus years of my career, I really believed, of course, I'm not gonna have my own business. Of course, I'm not gonna do that. That sounds crazy. That's risky. I can't lose everything.

And you know, as you are moving up and as you're building your career, your salary goes up and your lifestyle changes and you have to maintain that, or at least you feel like you have to maintain it. And that's where it gets dangerous because, you think, oh, this is why I work hard.

So I was falling into this trap of, oh, you know, I deserve it. I'm going to spend my money on this 'cause I deserve it. This is why I'm burned out. This is why I'm stressed out. And yeah, this is how, a director should be dressed,or this is what a CMO looks like.

And I think once I had her, I realized I don't have control. And the demands of the jobs that I had, they just weren't lining up with motherhood, and how I wanted to be there for her. And Yeah, to even request flexibility or even to desire that, like, you know, I think with my parents or my community, it's like, what do you mean? Be grateful you have a job? Like, what do you mean flexibility? That's, it's not a luxury that we're entitled to, you know?

Stephanie: So it's interesting to me, it sounds like the plan that your parents had for your life was based on their fear.

Angela: Yes, a hundred percent. And I did not realize that until I had my daughter.

I think that was one of those moments where, wait, so I basically want the opposite of what they had. I've seen when the businesses failed, the impact that they had on the family, and I promised myself that I would not bring that type of instability, you know?

So it's a lot of projection, whether they meant it or not.

Stephanie: Well, I see this so often, and in fact, there were pieces of it in my growing up as well. Our parents want the best for us. They want us to be happy, healthy, successful, and safe. And so what they do is they make these statements of the things that we should do to achieve those qualities, happy, healthy, successful, and safe, based on their experience of the world and not necessarily of our experience or what suits us or what feels best for us.

And so when we're young, we don't really have the wherewithal to know. Our parents know better than us, right? Our, our teachers, our bosses, our mentors, they all know better than us for a period of time. We're eager to follow in the things that we should do because we believe as well that that's gonna make us happy, healthy, successful, and safe.

Angela: Absolutely.

Stephanie: The problem becomes when we get there and we realize, oh my God, I have worked so hard and this is what I got?

Angela: That's exactly right. That is precisely how I felt.

Stephanie: Yeah, so tell me a little bit about that, because if I remember correctly too, you were doing some serious overachieving, right? You were 40 Under 40 in Silicon Valley a couple of years ago.

Yes, I was. Thank you. I mean, that doesn't come easy.

Angela: Thank you. Yeah, I was,chosen as 40 Under 40 for Silicon ValleyBusiness Journal and, you know, I was getting some accolades from some of the companies that I was working at. And,I think at one of the law firms I worked for, I got promoted very quickly to the management position, became a director, and went as far as I could as a marketing professional, becoming CMO.

And I thought, oh, I'm achieving all of this before 40. And my colleagues were telling me, oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. And on paper it should have been amazing. It should have been one of my happiest moments. So professionally, on paper, I was thriving.

If you look at my journey, it's like, oh, okay, so she's moving up. She's moving up. But personally I was not doing well, and I think I did a very good job of hiding that because it's not professional, right? You have to put on a smile and just be happy. Especially as a woman, I think there's that expectation.

And being an Asian American woman too, it's like, don't question the authority. Just put your head down and do the work. So I really told myself that's how it's supposed to be,not realizing that I was failing myself.

Stephanie: So tell me about your personal life and your mental health in those mid thirties years where you were on paper excelling at everything. Tell me what the other side of the story looks like.

Angela: I was escaping from my day to day. So if you looked at my social media or just the way that I was on LinkedIn and others, I was traveling a lot. I was shopping a lot. I was eating out a lot. So probably from the outside of it, they're thinking, oh wow, she's really enjoying her life. But what they, what my friends and family and probably anyone that looked at it, what they didn't realize is that I was trying to escape the stress of the jobs that I had, and also justify to myself why I was stressing myself out and literally killing myself, to excel in my career.

And I thought, oh no, I deserve this. Oh, you know, I do this and I kill myself. I'm miserable every single day so that I can travel. So I, all the justifications I was making, you know, oh,I'm extremely unhappy Monday through Friday. I'm being disrespected. I'm not being heard, but you know what, that's okay because I get to do X, Y, Z. And,I think I was just kind of on that, especially my mid thirties and I think after the birth of my daughter and turning 40, just, it's like I snapped out of it.

Stephanie: You know, what's kind of wild is,I also was the director of marketing for a law firm in my mid thirties.

Angela: Amazing.

Stephanie: Yeah. And it also didn't go well for me. My story has a couple of different flavors. Certainly it wasn't at the level of Silicon Valley and what you're talking about, but I was hired througha certain,management committee.

They recruited me, they hired me. They had a certain, viewpoint on my level of professionalism and what I brought to the table. And then about a year and a half in the management committee shifted, and there was a new managing partner. There was a new marketing partner, and these people had a very different idea of the role that I would play in the firm. And, and the first,idea of what role I played in the firm was the one that I was aligned with. And this second one was very different. I was not a professional. I did not have professional expertise.

Over the course of the next year, I basically became the point and shoot kind of monkey like, you know very well, right lawyers. Many lawyers think that they're the smartest people in the world and they know everything about everything, right? So they wanted certain things and I kept saying, well, that's not really the right way to go about this.

And I was going to all the legal marketing conferences and, you know, I was like, that's not the way the big firms are doing it. That's not the way the leading firms are doing it.

And so what happened for me is a bit different from your experience, but I I started making mistakes, and then I'd get in trouble. And then I'd lose confidence, and then the time would go by. I'd make another mistake. I'd get in trouble, I'd lose confidence and, and let me put, get in trouble in air quotes, right? Because you're like a 35, 36-year-old woman, like what kind of like trouble are you getting in at work, but you're getting in trouble. And so there was this, this,circling of the drain of this cycle, and yet I didn't have the guts or really the view on the situation to realize kind of what was going on. And I didn't have the guts to leave. I kept thinking like, eh, I should probably look for a new job. And I never bothered to, 'causewhen I started this, I loved the job.

Angela: Honest to God, the day the managing partner and the HR director that came into my office and they shut the door, you're chuckling to yourself. So is everybody listening? 'cause you all know what's happening. They sat down in front of my desk and I said, Hey guys, what's going on? Thinking like, new project something. And the managing partner said, you know, we're, we're gonna let you go. And I laughed in his face. I went, oh, what are you talking about like, I had no idea.

Stephanie: I was 36. I was in the middle of this transition. I was, making messes of, my personal life, my professional life. Everything turned out great for me in the end, but, it was that, not seeing the bigger picture and just kind of like putting your nose down and doing all the things you should.

Every time I made a mistake and got in trouble, I should work harder. I should, go further. I should overachieve. Like all of those things. So I can relate to you somewhat, right? Your is was a much different level than mine, but I can relate to that being the marketing person in a legal firm in your mid thirties and finally realizing that this isn't a fit.

So, you had your daughter and then you started to realize that the, the flexibility wasn't there and you weren't spending enough time with her. Tell me about turning 40.

Angela: I think up until I was just about to turn 40, I thought, okay, I have to be in the office Monday through Friday. When she was born, to be honest with you, I was still in the mindset of whatever happens, suck it up. If it kills you, you have to just do it.

You're a professional, now you have a little human being that's depending on you, in every way, including financially. So I remember having this talk with my husband. No matter what, we're gonna hold onto our jobs. We're gonna do our best. We're gonna suck it up. And just remember, we're doing this for our daughter. You know, and both of us, I think we were just like. I think we were falling apart as well because we were just so focused on our career and, we weren't taking care of our health. And,I had health issues,due to, some of the work environment that I was in.

And it became really severe where the doctors had to sit me down and say, Hey, you like this is serious. You need to take this seriously. You are literally killing yourself. And, I thought, no, but that's what a professional does. If you're a leader in charge, that's what you do. And with my daughter, I think once she became about two and a half, three years,and she started to really talk and wanna have time with me and all that, I realized, I can't be there for her at all if I don't have a flexible work arrangement.

And,I realized quickly that's very difficult to achieve in a corporate setting. And,I think the first two years of Covid, I think a lot ofcompanies were open to that, but unfortunately now I think there's a lot of back to the office, and If you like being in the office, that's fantastic.

I think for me as a working mom, I just need flexibility. I wanna be present for her, but it doesn't mean that makes me a less of a professional. I'm still gonna do my job. And,I think one of the key things that really shapedthis transformation right before I was about to turn 40. Two things happened. You know, I had a very,scary health scare. The doctors basically told me that I was showing symptoms of having a stroke. Yeah, It was just crazy because I was having all these chest pains and I just wasn't sleeping. I was working.

And I was just giving it my best. I had a team that, depended on me. I was like, I'm just gonna do my best. And you know, as you talked about with your,legal marketing,career, your experience. At the end of it, you feel like, oh, wait a minute, but is that being appreciated? Is that being respected? And, oftentimes, unfortunately not. And I had that health scare, and then myfamily and I, we decided to move outside Silicon Valley, just get away from all of that because it, I felt like it was just hurting us. It's that rat race. It's a constant comparison and competing with other people.

Stephanie: Yeah. And, and, and certainly that is one of the areas of the country where it's, it is the highest of the high of pressure cookers, right. The comparison and the, yes. It's so interesting that you, you talk about the health issues because I, I also was having health issues and we can, I'm sure we both know now that it was due to stress.

I remember going to seesomeone and saying, every night when I go to sleep, I feel like I have creepy crawlies running up and down my legs, and I just wanna like thrash. And she was like, Stephanie, you're having panic attacks. Is that every, you're having panic attacks every night?

And I was like, oh, is that what that is? No clue of, what this was doing to my body. And obviously you're not sleeping well.

Angela: That's right.

Stephanie: I'm thinking you didn't realize there was an alternative.

Angela: Oh, precisely. That's exactly right. I had dizzy spells, chest pain and numbness, all of that, and I thought, oh no, this is just what happens when you're in a high pressure role and so forth. And I think that level of stress I thought is expected.

That's what's expected of you, and you just keep on going. But my body, at that point literally said, Nope. You've gotta ask for flexibility. You've gotta ask for accommodation, which I did. But unfortunately, again, in a corporate setting, you don't always have it, it's not always regarded, right. And I think moving out of the Bay Area and all of that, it really just gave me different perspective. I, was on the verge of turning 40 and I thought, oh man, all this time, like I keep doing the same thing. I keep thinking the next job, the higher paying job, the better title is gonna make me happier. But then you don't feel the fulfillment.Was it Einstein or someone said the very definition of crazy is like when you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, and that's exactly what I was doing, and I thought, I have to make a change. And to be honest, like I always heard from either like my friends in business school or colleagues, they would always say, you know, you would make a really good business owner. You would make a really good consultant. And I thought, oh gosh, no. Are you kidding me? No.

And not have stable paycheck and all that. It's like, no, that's not for me. And if I even would mention that casually to my parents, they would say, oh no, you don't wanna own a business. You have to work for someone else. It's just easier, you know, it's stable. You have money coming in, and I thought, okay, nevermind.

Stephanie: So you're getting two different things. You're getting from your peers and your friends and the people you went to school with, you're getting you would be good at this. And from your parents, you're getting poo poo. No, don't do it.

Angela: That's right, That's right. Because of their experience. And also what's important too is that they are looking at,being business owners and all that, as owning actual stores, right. Like, that's the extent of the understanding, which is like an important context because a lot of, I think the first generation,they oftentimes owned stores, whether it be like laundromats or grocery stores. So there's. Exactly. Restaurants, which have a pretty high failure rate, or you know, there's a lot of overhead costs and they've seen.

Stephanie: And, those are a lot of work.

Angela: Yes. That's right. And they think, okay, first we've seen our friends suffer financially. Or they've also had failed businesses, so why would you do that?

And second, oh, you went to college to have a business. Like you didn't have to go to college for that. It was hard for them to comprehend, like, no, the type of business I wanna run is different. It's service based. I think I can add value.

So I think after the scare, after the experience that I had,it's almost like I had no choice, In a really weird way. I had no choice. But also it made me realize, okay, I have to survive and maybe as part of the survival mechanism, it's time for me to just take that chance and just go for it.

And another factor is I think the job market has been really difficult and I've seen how tough it is. And I thought, okay, maybe that's another sign from the Universe. I usually would hear back from recruiters or if I applied for jobs and even thousands of job application and nothing. And I thought, huh, okay. That's very unusual. I just felt like it was a sign.

Stephanie: Well for sure. I mean, your resume has gotta go to the top of every pile because of everything you achieved and right. And, and the accolades you've gotten like, so if you are not hearing back, I'm so interested to know. As you start to think about starting your own business, you realize that it's a different kind of business than your parents had owned.

I'm guessing, and I'm gonna put words in your mouth here, so tell me if I'm wrong. I'm guessing that for a long time it was your parents' voices that you heard in your head about, about entrepreneurship and running businesses and things like that. What was the transition to when you started hearing your own voice?

How was it that you started hearing your voice about what was possible and what maybe could happen versus just the like, no, no, no, no. Do you have any sense of like when that happened or why that happened?

Angela: You know, it's,as funny as it is, I think once I started to sleep, to be honest, once I started to get some sleep and I actually have time to think. It just all, like, I know, it's just, it sounds so simple, but for all these years I was just running, I, I just kept running, running, running.

I didn't give myself that time to even think. I just didn't have the luxury of thinking, and once I had started to actually get proper sleep. And have time to just sit and think and start writing down what my strengths are and what I want in my career versus what I don't want. And okay, how am I gonna get there and what changes am I going to make?

I just started writing and I thought, okay, this is what I want. These are what I own, and what I can manifest So simple as just having that time to breathe and think.

Stephanie: It does sound simple, but it is really profound for sure, because one of the things that happens, the part of this transition that I'm so intrigued by is the fact that for the first, 15 years of our adulthood. we are doing all the things we should. We're listening to other people's expertise, right?

Because they're older than us. They know better than us. They've seen more than us, but it's this time where we start to realize, wait a minute, I now have 10 or 15 or 17 years of experience as an adult human being, right?All those things they told me I should, I did it, and it got me here.

Or I felt this, I right. I, I've run all the experiments. And so now I can start prioritizing my own voice, my own experience, my own expertise about my life and what's good for me. And so that's why I was wondering, like what changed when you started hearing your own voice in your head versus your parents' voices.

Angela: And that's huge. And I think that also,you know. For,like the elder millennials we're sort of like the ones that just turned 40 or about to, you know. I think that we also are the generation that quote unquote did everything right. We were told to do this and then you can buy a house, you can do all this.

And a lot of us are just finding out at 40, oh wait, so I did all of that and more. I went above and beyond and I don't see it, I don't see the reward, and maybe it's time to put ourselves. First and our happiness first and really understand, okay, is it my parents' voice? Is it the, you know, the extended family?

Is it the society? Or is this really what you want? And I feel like we never question it. You're absolutely right. And it's not until 40. And I think personally for me,just, you know, being a mom too, I think,at 40, people are going through the transition of being parents, right?

I know some of you guests have gone through like divorce and life changing events and I think that really just transforms you 'cause you realize how your life is long, but short at the same time.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Angela: like if it really just gets to you.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. There was a social media post I saw last year by a woman that struck me so much. I think she's like 35, and she said, you know, I just realized I have another 35 to go, but this time I get to make all the decisions. I don't have to be a kid. I don't have to listen to my parents. I've got 35 years of experience, so what is it that I wanna do with the next 35 years of my life. And I thought that was so brilliant and I was definitely not that smart at 35, but it, it, it, it's true. You finally realize like, I'm the boss of me.

Angela: That's right. And you know, I know this sounds silly, but one of my favorite movies is The Devil Wears Prada.

I love that movie. Right. It's just so great. And I remember watching that movie when it first came out with my mom. I was at,it was my first job, I believe, and I was working in a law firm and you know, my boss at the time, wasn't the most, like, it wasn't, she wasn't as bad as Miranda Priestley, you know, obviously.

But it was tough and it was very demanding. And I remember sometimes I would just come home and, oh man, I'm just really stressed. And I remember at the time my mom was like. You know, everybody just, you have to suck it up. You just, that's just part of being in corporate. And I thought, okay, you're right.

I just have to be stronger. I recently watched a movie again, well this is like probably the 10th time watching it, but recently I watched it very different perspective because now as a mom, if my daughter went through that, I would just be like, oh no, it's not worth your mental health.

I'll tell her, just leave. Like, it is not worth it. Like they don't care about your mental health. And I saw something on Instagram once as well where,this, person posted,that one of her,colleagues passed away of health issue and while her family, her kids and her husband were mourning her passing, hR was busy cleaning out, you know, clearing out her desk and posting a job

That really struck a chord with me. 'cause you know, my husband at one point, as I was going through this health issue, he's just like, Hey, we can't lose you. Like, you cannot, like, just remember we can't lose you. And I think that's where I thought, okay,I've gotta make a change. I have the next 20, 25 years of professional, life and I have to do something that works for me.

And, as the nineties turned into two thousands, that got shorter and now you maybe were only staying a year or two at your first job. And now people were jumping around more and it wasn't as looked down upon. So the world has been changing, very dramatically, and you and I know in marketing, right?

I always talk about like the rate of change and the tools we're using and the things we're doing, right? And so, there are so many people who are still attached to this traditional way of doing things and not realizing that the world has opened up and now there are so many more pathways to success that, you know, social media influencers didn't exist, you know,10, 15, 20 years ago. Right. So there are things that didn't even exist a few years ago. So when those Olders and Wisers are guiding us, they're guiding us from almost an old model.

Angela: That's right. That's, I think that's really important to keep in mind because I do think that, even you are absolutely right about influencers as well. They don't really understand that. And,even, just in terms of marketing, it was all about advertising, right? It was all about advertising. Now it's about content providing valuable content. That's what really matters.

SoI think we constantly think about we should be doing this, we should be happy. And many of us are just finding out, oh man, we did everything right. And I feel like sometimes I'm the classic example of on paper I did everything right. I feel like I got as far as I could. I didn't cause any trouble with anyone or any place. And I just, put my head down and give it my all, and even to the detriment of my health in many cases, you know?

Yeah. And it's just, it wasn't until the doctors were just like, Hey. And my husband having to talk with me and realizing I don't want my daughter to say, oh yeah, no, mommy, she's never here and all that. I was like, okay, I can't do that, and I've gotta make a change because I want different results than what I was getting.

Stephanie: So, one last thing I wanna pop into is that you also started changing how you were thinking about material things, what you own and what you've got to quote unquote show for your,your success. Talk a little bit about that.

Angela: So, I always would tell people, oh, I'm not materialistic. Like, yeah, I like nice things, but that's about it. I really believed that for many, many years. It wasn't until again, I had time to properly like sleep and think, and I kept looking back and I'm looking at pictures of myself and I thought, why was I shopping so excessively?

Why was I buying all these bags? Why did I need to go to expensive restaurants? Like, why was I doing all that? And I think that a big part of it was, again, that justification, but also to show people what, this is why I work hard and you know, I have this job and I have to look and present myself a certain way.

And it was a way of me showing, okay, this is where I am in the corporate ladder. I think that really got to me, and again, I didn't realize it at the time. And I still love nice bags and all that, but to the extent that I was buying it wasn't because, I really need this and that.

It was just collecting,I think I was an autopilot for many years and I wasn't thinking. I just kept doing it and doing it, When you're in big cities like Silicon Valley and others, you wanna differentiate yourself.

You wanna differentiate yourself and say, I work hard, I have this job, and I have to show that I'm successful to other people. One of the best, unfortunately way to do it is to own material things that kind of, support your story.

Stephanie: They signify certain things like, oh, you have that bag. Oh, you shop at that store? Oh, you wear those shoes. They signify things to the tribe.

Angela: Exactly. And in a town where it's very much about that, being in the Bay Area, it's just like, oh, what do you do? Where do you work? And then what's your title? That type of thing. That's how that, those are first questions that people ask. Whereas out here where I live now, nobody asks, and it's so refreshing. It's just wonderful that way. Telling you, once I turned 40,I cleaned up my closet. I sold a lot of the things that I owned, including bags,shoes and clothes, and I just thought, I don't need any of it.

I never really needed it to begin with, but now I'm realizing I don't need it and it's just clutter. I just need, a few things And happiness is not about collecting things or having all these things that I own and buy. Happiness is just, having like a nice cup of coffee with family and just having the freedom of time.

So it's just weird.

Stephanie: No, no, it's not weird because we are such a consumer society and when you've reached a certain level of success, you have disposable income, and what do you do with your disposable income? You go and you buy things that, you couldn't get when you were two levels down onthe ladder.

But I'm very curious to know in this purging of all the things that you had acquired during that phase of life. has your style changed as well?

Angela: Oh yes.

Stephanie:

Angela: I,

Stephanie: Tell me about that.

Angela: I'm just in leggings all the time. Very casual. I work from home, so I still have my jackets that I wear. But I, don't get my hair done. I used to go to Dry Bar all the time to get blowouts for work almost every week. And now looking back, what a waste of money.

Who cares? You know? And,I'm just very casual. I just wanna be comfortable and when I need to be on camera, of course I wanna look professional. But I just don't need a lot of things. And I wear a lot of neutrals, so it's just. Yeah, I would say my style has changed and I, again, after turning 40, I just don't care about what people think. I feel like I never really cared, but truly now, I do not care if, if I'm dressed down and you think, oh, maybe she just isn't doing well in her life. That's great. I'm gonna let you think that. I just, I don't care. Right. I'm okay.

Stephanie: Oh, that's so awesome. Oh, Angela, I am so glad that we connected and that you were able to share your story because I do really love sharing stories of people right around the 40 mark because it's so fresh and you're right in the middle of it. so thank you so much for being so generous with your story. You've provided a great illustration.

Angela: Thank you Stephanie, and I really, you know, I'm happy to,be here and,thank you for letting me share my story.