Stephanie: Emily. Thanks for being here today.

Emily: Ah, thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure.

Stephanie: It really is a pleasure. I love your story because it starts with bursting into tears on your 40th birthday. Proving that, you know, it's not always the best.

Stephanie: But before we get there, let's set the stage for how we got to that point. So tell me a little bit about your early life, the forces that shaped you and how you got to the beginning of this transitional phase.

Emily: Ah, gosh. I mean, early life, I didn't have the most normal childhood growing up, let's say. Was a very toxic environment at home, toxic environment at school, which led to lots of alcohol, drugs, binge eating, all of that, you know, any kind of self-sabotage and behavior, you name it, I did it.

I had no idea at the time that I was just trying to cover up all of this stuff. And then, you know, partied my way through my 20s and 30s thinking that that's who I was.

Stephanie: Me, too.

Emily: Uh, but actually the real me is somebody who is very into her horses, into her dogs, you know, into the country. Don't get me wrong, I love a drink still, but, that kind of party, party, party. And then in my 30s, early thirties, I met a man, and I kind of thought that this is it, you know, we're going to get married. We're going to have children. But actually that relationship was very good in very good in beginning, but later on it was two people who didn't feel good enough that come together.

And then I hit 40, I was still in that relationship. And the reason that I cried on my 40th, because I was like, my God, I'm still not married. still have kids. And these are the things that we are told that we should have done, you know?

Stephanie: Yes.

Emily: It was always a kind of unsaid thing in my family that I was the kind of unmarried one.

I think my mom really subtly in a lot of subtle ways sort of hinted that there was something wrong with me. I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was about 19. And it was certainly what's wrong with her, what's wrong with her, you know, she hasn't got this boyfriend.

So it was this theme So that is exactly because I just thought oh my god, my life's over. I'm 40. I'm not married. I haven't got any kids. This is it.

Stephanie: And did you know at the time, was that even what you wanted or were you just following all the things that you thought you should be doing?

Emily: So it's definitely what I wanted.

Stephanie: Okay. It was.

All right. Good.

Emily: But whether or not that's because the messaging had been so clear my entire life, and I was kind of the odd one out in the family, you who knows? I was certainly getting quite maternal at that point. But again, the messaging from my family had almost been, not my entire family, from certain person in the family, was of like, Oh, because I'd been in and out of hospital and I died a few times and all these different things happened.

It was like, Oh, Emily, would she ever be able to have children? And there was just all of this kind of stuff bubbling away. And maybe that's the reason that I just kept putting it off and I don't know.

Stephanie: Can we back up two steps? Cause you went by something at like 30 miles an hour that I think we need to hear a little more about. I died a couple of times.

Emily: So yeah, the first time I was in a coma, and then the second time, a couple of years later, I had a blood clot and died on like the surgery. And then I had a near death experience a few years after that. And then a few years after that I nearly died another time.

Stephanie: Oh, my goodness, Emily. Wow. My jaw's dropped. Holy cow. That's a lot.

Emily: Yeah, yeah, I guess I'll just skim over it because it's just so normal to me now that, it doesn't even seem like a thing,

Stephanie: Yeah, I can tell you to me, it does not sound normal. How do you think those experiences affected you or shaped you as you were, you know, I'm saying I'm, I'm sensing that those were all before you were 40.

Emily: Yes, yeah, yeah, everything before 40. It's interesting because I've never really thought that I wouldn't get over something. And I think that has got a lot to do with the belief system that on my mom's side, it was like the Halls, you know, are always super, super ill. They're always in hospital, but no one ever dies.

I've always had this like massive belief that I'm just going to recover from something. So, I think that kind of helped in a lot of ways. Did it massively change me? I mean, there was a lot of depression around some of that stuff. But then, you know, again, was it those instances, or was it the low self esteem, the low confidence that I had in myself, the not valuing myself, a lot of that led to the kind of depression as well.

So I don't think it's a kind of black and white answer. I mean, you hear some people say, you know, they died and then they suddenly went skydiving and all that. Actually, I became more cautious. I definitely became more cautious. After the coma, I was petrified of flying and I'd never been bothered about flying but it was just like, oh my God, I'm just going to die on a flight.

And it was just, cause I actually remember going into the coma and grabbing my mom's hand at the time and say, I know I'm going to die.

Stephanie: Oh,

Emily: And so that, that really, yeah, I just became a lot more cautious in some ways. In other ways, I think the drinking got worse, you know, the drugs got worse, the eating got worse.

So Yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah. The, the covering up of the things that you didn't want to pay attention to or address, or dig into the, the sort of, yeah. Yeah.

Emily: I I don't think I think I knew how to, to be honest. And it was kind of like, okay, that's done. I'm out of hospital. You know, let's get on with it. And I don't even think I even knew that I needed to address it. I was going to like, counselors and stuff, but not really sort know, digging into it. It was more talking about day by day stuff.

So I just don't think, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I don't think I processed any of it.

Stephanie: And meanwhile, if I remember correctly, your mom was a complicated person in your life as well. Is that right?

Emily: Yeah, she is very, very complicated. Um, but I think, that comes from her own childhood, her own traumas, her way of being. You she's still my mum, I still love her and, you know. Um, but I think, you know, a lot the time we bring our trauma, and I certainly did in my life, to the relationships that we have around us.

Stephanie: Right. Okay. so let's go back to, this relationship you were in. You turned 40. You were upset that you hadn't achieved these milestones yet. And then he did ultimately propose, right?

Emily: Yes. Yeah. And oh my God, Steph, it was like my world. It was the happiest day of my life. Even though in the back of my mind I was like, Hmm, is this right? 'Cause there was stuff going wrong in the relationship. But for me it was like, I've made it. It was like, this is it. I've made it. I'm engaged. That's it.

You know? That was the only thing that I saw in my life that was success, which is really sad when you think about it. Really sad.

Stephanie: Yeah, and that happiness, that joy of sort of achieving that milestone also ends up coming crashing down just a coming crashing down just a couple of months later, right?

Emily: Yeah, so, then he had an an affair, and it broke me. You know, of all the things that I'd been through, I remember one of my friends saying to me, look, you've been through worse. And she was talking about, you know, the coma and stuff. And I just thought to myself, no, I haven't, I haven't been through worse because that idea that I'd lived with for 40 years, that I wasn't good enough to get married. No one would want me, you know, that was all suddenly had become true, if you like. And it's just, you know, I know better now, but back then I was just like, you know, all this subconscious stuff was boiling away. And the only thing I could just see was pain. It was just, it was torture. And I said, I remember saying to my friend, I said, look, I would go through any of those things. I would have the double pneumonia again. I would have the collapsed lungs. I would have any of that because I find that stuff easy to get through.

Stephanie: Well, I was just gonna say that. All the medical stuff that you went through Was physical. And you could deal with your physical body, but this was more emotional, and that was probably a more difficult place for you to dwell at that time.

Emily: Yeah. And, you know, it was the one thing that I saw success suddenly been ripped out from under me. Also what I didn't realize then was that I was really codependent. I've been codependent with my parents. I've been codependent in friendships, certainly codependent in my relationship. And then suddenly you've got that all ripped away and lots of other things happened at the same time.

My best friend went off to work for him and then she behaved very, very badly. AndI was running his business. So I suddenly had no job. And then all this stuff happened and it was just like, holy crap, this is just me now. I've got to do this, everything all on my own, which I'd had done until the point I met him, but suddenly it was just like, there's no best friend there for the codependency.

There's no partner there for the codependency. You know, my mother, you know, some things happened there, that that there. And I was just kind of like. Holy fuck, you

Stephanie: Yeah.

Emily: What am I gonna do? But the , time not realising that it was codependency, that I was kind of like, having this huge meltdown over.

So tell me, cause some of these therapeutic words are a little bit difficult to, for, people who haven't heard them before to really understand. Tell me in your life, what does codependency look like? How does it manifest? You said, a couple of different ways. You said family, friends, and in your relationship. So tell us a little bit about that.

So growing up, I have always tried to be good enough. And being that people pleaser. You know, wanting people to like me. You know, when you've got to earn love, when love comes with conditions, you learn that you've got to do certain things to get that love.

In a codependent relationship, what happens is you give, give, give, and you attract someone toxic, and they take, take, take, and it's this weird, you're both kind of dependent on each other, because they come from the same kind of scenario that they don't think they're good enough either, but their actions are different to my actions.

So

Stephanie: fit together like puzzle pieces.

Emily: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, lots of my friendships that I attracted in the past that may have been quite selfish, you know, and I would just give, give, give, abandon myself in the process and excuse a lot of the behavior in my relationship. Definitely excused a lot of the behavior, you know, because I'm empathetic, so I would, talk to myself about why, he was behaving in the way that he did. But there comes a point where you've where you've got to value yourself, andI just did not value myself enough to call that behavior out, was petrified

that, you know, he was going to leave.

I was petrified that, you know, my mum might never speak to me again or friends might go because I didn't want to be alone because, oh my god, that would just, you know, bring up all this other stuff about how unlovable I am and how no one wants me. So all of this, you know, subconscious stuff, but you don't realise it at the time and then you just end up drinking two bottles of wine to kind of cover all of that shit up.

Stephanie: Yeah. To dull those voices in your head to, to quiet them down. I remember when we first spoke you said, at the time, you felt lucky to have him.

Emily: Oh God. Totally and utterly. Yeah. It was like I was the luckiest, like I'd won the lottery.

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: In fact it was better than the lottery because someone loved me.

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: And then when that was stripped away, it's like, oh, nobody loves me.

Stephanie: So when your life imploded and it took it took the boyfriend or the fiance. It took the best friend. It took your job. It took a lot of things with it. You told me that you thought through the options. Tell me what your options were at that point in time, from your point of view at the time.

Emily: Yeah. So this is going to sound a bit, what the word is. But the options for me really were, and I genuinely sat down and thought, look, what are my options here? I thought, number one, I can, like, keep doing the same thing. You know, I'd spent years in and out of therapy, and just not getting anywhere, and just still feeling miserable.

So that was like, do I carry on doing that?that. That isn't an option because you know another 40, 50, 60 years of that, no way.

Option two, and this was a genuine option, was I could kill myself. And I'd already tried that, you know, about a decade before I think it was, and failed. Somebody, you know, was staying with a friend. She came home when she wasn't meant to. I ended up in hospital. So,And so I thought, I can't even do option two in case I fail again.

Stephanie: right.

Emily: So I'm like, you know, that's not even an option. And then option three really came about when someone said to me, and it was harsh at the time, but she was like, look, no one's coming to save you.

And I thought, you know what? She's right. No one is coming. You know, he's not going to come back and say he's sorry. The people that I, I feel, you know, this is my story. They've got a different perspective, that I felt had wronged me there, they weren't coming back either. You know, I've got to get out of this.

Okay. How do I do that? Right. I've got to think really, really, really differently. I've got to kind of ditch all of that traditional old way of doing things. I've got to start looking at, you know, completely new type of thinking, actually.

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Emily: And that is when I just threw myself into learning how this fucking mind works.

I'm like, I've got to make you my friend.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah.

Emily: I'm like, you just seem to hate me.

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: And it was kind of like, you know, I had to do that because the thought honestly of being in that misery, I'd spent 40 years in misery. I'm like, I cannot do it. I just can't do it any longer. And that's when I started to understand about, how our beliefs shape us, how our beliefs that we have about ourselves, about our world, whatever, really inform our actions.

And actually, the self loathing and self hatred was completely unnecessary.

You know, I'm not a terrible person, despite having been told that for many, many, many years, but actually, that is load of crap. That's that's when, the magic started to happen, if you like.

I it was hard work, don't get me wrong. Really hard work.

Stephanie: Well, tell me about that. So you knew you had to start thinking differently because nobody was coming to save you. This is a place that so many people find themselves in. What did you even do? I mean, were you reading books? Were you wandering around online what were even like your first two steps into thinking differently?

Emily: Yeah, I don't even know what the first two steps were, but I know I was definitely like Googling, you know, loads of stuff for like, you know, it's like, can I Google here? And I started following some of, law of attraction people, you know, people like that. Looking for more coaches. I'm like therapy, is that right? No, I need something that's more forward thinking. Okay, let's look at all these coaches.

And I signed up to course after course after course. I remember even though I had no money coming in at the time, I was just like, I've just got to, I paid like three grand for a course.

Emily: Which was, I was already a hypnotherapist, but it was an add on to kind of that. And I was just like, I've just got to do this because I've got to change some stuff here. And I bought books and every single day I was on YouTube. I was listening to something. I cut out all things like the news.

And like anything that makes me feel bad, I just cut it right out. It's like, it doesn't matter, you know, I only watch comedy for a long time. I'm like, I cannot watch anything that is in the slightest bit gonna make me feel bad.

Stephanie: because you're trying to retrain yourself,

Emily: yeah,

Stephanie: so you need to, you need to stay away from that for a while.

Emily: Yeah, I stayed off social media, because I was like, you know, even though we know it's not a true reflection of life, when you're in that space, when you feel so low, you, you kind of look at this stuff and you're like, Oh my God, everyone's got an amazing life and I'm just not, you know.

Stephanie: Right?

Emily: Even though we know it's bullshit.

But the, the biggest piece, the biggest change piece for me was changing my internal dialogue. That was hard.

Stephanie: Yes.

Emily: And I was just like, I remember one day, like my neighbors must've thought, who is this woman? Because I just was screaming at the walls. I was like, right, you've got to change this internal dialogue.

And every day I'm doing it, every checking in with what I'm saying. And then one day I was just like, reframe, reframe. I don't want to FUCKING reframe anything anymore. It was so loud.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, you were having yourself a tantrum,

Emily: Yes.

Stephanie: A full on

Emily: Yep, full blown tantrum,

Stephanie: Love it. I love it.

Emily: But it made me feel good afterwards, I'll tell

Stephanie: I bet it did. I bet it did. You had been working so hard. You probably needed that release to just be screaming. Oh, my goodness.

Emily: Neighbors just must have thought, what the hell? Because, oh my god, I shouted. And then, and then, you know, you have that moment, don't you? You kind of like lick your wounds and then you get back on the horse.

Stephanie: Yeah. Well, it's so funny, right? Because if we think of going to the gym or like getting in shape, like, there's a program out there that, I ran across, I don't know, 15 years ago, it was called Couch To 5k.

Emily: Yes, we have that here. Yeah.

Stephanie: heard of that. Right. And it was like, how do you go from being like, a couch potato to running a race? And I just use that sort of as an example, right? But like, you got to get in shape and you have to start using new muscles and you have to build and you have to keep going, right? You're going to go to the gym, you keep working out. And it, there comes a point where you're like, I'm exhausted.

This is a big change. I have to cut myself a break. And so you need to like pause and let what you've done integrate before you can keep going. So your tantrum to me makes total sense because you had been working so hard and you, you were putting all yourself into it that like, you just needed a moment to ah, and relax. And then you could move forward again.

Okay. So now you're working on retraining your brain. How long did that take for you?

Emily: I mean I think I'm still working now, to be honest

Stephanie: Of course, of course, but there's evidence in your, there's evidence in your life that things have shifted. So I'm curious how long was this low period before you started climbing back up

Emily: It was about a year actually, maybe less, because it did, it took me a massive, massively long time to shift the fundamental belief that I had failed, because I hadn't got married.

That for me was the biggest one, along with the codependency. Those are the two big things. It's funny because like my alcohol intake naturally declined. My eating naturally became quite normal, if you like.

But was still feeling this kind of thing about the relationship because it was my biggest nemesis, I suppose. And you know, alongside that, I did try for IVF and then I got told that I was going, I was in early menopause. So I think there was a lot of hormonal stuff around that as well, at the same time.

I mean, looking back, I probably went into menopause at about 38, at the time. I think that, but because there was all this chaos going on, I just assumed it was all of that.

So I think that that played a big part, but then I discovered HRT and that was like a magic drug. So that definitely helped. It was a challenging time.

Stephanie: Yeah. So as started to come out of that and sort of stabilize and start moving forward, what kinds of things were shifting in your life? What did life start looking like for you?

Emily: So I knew that because I didn't have an income anymore, I'd given up my corporate career to help my partner build his business. I was like, okay, my back's against the wall, need to really make business work. And I'd always had this idea. I'd had on hypnotherapy clients on an on and off over the years. And I'd always had an idea of building that practice, but there'd always been an excuse.

Stephanie: hmm.

Emily: Suddenly when your back's against the wall, you've got to make it work. I started my business and, I now specialize in binge eating disorder and overeating, because I lost my eyesight in my left eye, when I was doing all the overeating, that was like a few years before in my thirties. Anyway, so I started to build this practice, and just, just everything had this knock on effect.

You know, when you feel good from within, suddenly you attract much better people into your life. Suddenly you're earning more money because you know your value. Suddenly, you know, you're not afraid, you know, if I'd done something like this years ago, with all that horrible mess in my head, I would have come off the call and I could have done an amazing call, but I would have thought to myself, Oh, my God, that's useless, worthless, and that would have sent me into a downward spiral for days on end.

But now, you know, I speak in the media. I'm on national TV, national radio. in fact, well, media across the world. And I did, I actually did quite an awful interview once, actually about a year or so ago. And it was terrible because I wasn't prepped for the, questions, but it didn't send me into a downward spiral.

And they asked me again, well, I don't know, two or three months later, the old me would have just run away from that. And I was like, yeah, great. I'll do, I'll do another interview on a slightly different subject and it was brilliant. So, you know, all those things, it's just, when you do that inner work, the head space you've got is amazing, and you can actually enjoy life.

One of the biggest things for me, I remember I went to an event, and I was just like, stood there going, My God, I'm enjoying this. This is weird. This is so weird. Because all the events that been to before, I'd have to get pissed, you know, to enjoy it, because I didn't know that all this stuff was going on up here.

All the anxiety, all the self-loathing, all the panic, all of that. I didn't realize that there was all of that stuff going on, on in my head every single day. And then suddenly I'm like, oh my God, I actually know what people mean when they say be in the moment. I was like, 'cause that was something that always eluded me. I'm like, people go, oh, be in the moment. What the hell does that mean?

Stephanie: Right. Where else could I be?

Emily: Yeah, I don't just stand like looking around going, okay, this is in the moment, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But this time that I went to that event and I was like, my God, this is what being in the moment is. Wowzers. There's no chaos in my mind.

Stephanie: Wow.

Emily: Enjoy it.

Stephanie: Wow. No chaos in your mind. That's an amazing transformation from where you had been a few years earlier.

Emily: Yeah.

Stephanie: So how long has it been since all this went down?

Emily: So eight years ago now. So, yeah. I feel like, should I have like a little badge, eight year badge. And I know what you're going to say, Steph. I don't look a day over 25. I know.

Stephanie: don't don't. How could you be?

And, and so life on the other side of this hard work that you did, right? You got knocked down and you finally realized that you needed to do the hard work. You did the hard work. You built yourself a business. You're finding you don't have the chaos in your mind.

What does life look like on the other side?

Emily: Oh my God. It is amazing. You know, it is so much better, you know, not waking up every day, hating yourself. You know, just, and even things like my riding, I think is better because I'm not so flipping up tight.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Emily: You know, and I think all stuff like that, the other side, I say this to my clients all the time.

This is the hardest work you'll ever do, but the other side is so worth it. So, so worth it, not to second guess everything, not to to blame myself for everything, you know. And being able to speak up, speak out, be an adult. I actually, I was a child. You know, all of that stuff comes from childhood thinking.

So my behavior in those relationships wasn't great either. Don't get, you know, don't get me wrong because I was showing up a child, wasn't having adult conversations because I was too petrified that people were going to leave me, you know, and, and then when you've got two people that are both coming at it from a place of insecurity, it's always going to going to blow up.

You know, I definitely had a part to play in my entire life story. But at the time I was just like, oh, I'm the victim.

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: Actually looking back, I attracted that stuff.

Stephanie: You weren't conscious of your part in everything that was going on. Yeah.

Emily: But I did, I attracted it all.

Stephanie: Yeah. And the one thing that I love that you said that, that I think is such a signal of this growth is the fact that you had a terrible interview on TV. And you went, wow, that sucked. But you went back, right?

Like, you didn't spend, you know, years beating yourself up over this performance over right? You're human and that was a human moment. And, you know, whether it was as bad as you think it was or not, it just, it's a human moment and,

Emily: mean, it was because my, uh, the girl that helps me with social media, she wouldn't put it the website,so, I mean, it definitely was. It definitely, definitely was.

Stephanie: Well, I'll tell you a little story then. Many, many years ago, hosting an event. I worked at a statewide business magazine and I was MC'ing a business event and there was, a panel discussion and then I was supposed to moderate the live discussion. And so people had, sent in questions, they'd written on little cards and sent them, and somebody brought them up to me.

And so I was flipping through them while somebody was, coming up and asking a live question. So it was like, trying to manage these things. And so, somebody is asking a live question. Somebody's answering, I'm flipping through, I find a great question and I look up and I go, okay, here's this great question, and it was the same question that the person had just asked live. And I didn't even know it because I was so focused on finding the next great question. Oh God, what a mess.

Emily: moments just

Stephanie: I was the only one in the room who didn't know the question had just been asked. Somebody had to go like, uh, we just answered that. Where was I? I mean, it was, yeah. So we all have those moments. We all,

Emily: Yeah.

We're human beings, but I mean, in the moment, it is just like Oh, God,

Stephanie: Yeah. Yes. Yes. I can never show my face in this town again.

Emily: I mean, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of people who've done a lot worse.

Stephanie: Of course, of course there is. But of course these terribly embarrassing moments for ourselves, the fire that burns inside of us to tell us how terrible we are.

Emily: Yeah, it reinforces, you know, the old me, that happened, you know, your scenario, my scenario, whatever the old me would have been, Oh my God, it's, I'm this terrible person. Um, and actually it's, it's about not having those meanings on these events, seeing things from a logical perspective rather than the emotional perspective that, that

Stephanie: Yeah. Not using it as proof that you're a terrible person.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, I was talking to somebody else on a podcast and I was like, you would have thought I'd like, you know, I've done triple homicide with the way I used to be about myself, you know?

Stephanie: Yes. Yes.

Emily: You know, we think, well, I'm terrible because I've eaten a packet of biscuits and drunk a bottle of wine. Ooh, whoop dee doo!

Stephanie: Right. Right. The other thing that, I was really struck by when we first spoke was that you were pretty confident that you had to go through all of that to get where you are today.

Emily: Yeah, yeah, I know, which seems a bit, I guess, kind of weird. We don't want to do it again, absolutely bloody not. but I kind of feel like my life's purpose is to help other people. I lost the eyesight in my left eye. That has to be for a reason, right? You know, and now I help women who overeat, binge eat and get rid of the stigma that it's their fault.

You know, I lost that eyesight and I still carried on with all of those behaviours.

Stephanie: because the pull is so much stronger. Until you go back and understand why you're doing this stuff and until you start to reprogram your thinking, you will still go to those things. I remember I had a client once and she'd honestly said, I'll put food before my kids and I get it.

Emily: You know, because the pull is so strong, it's so unconscious, and yet, we're told that just stop eating and you'll be all right,

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: You know, if it was that easy, you

know.

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: So I kind of feel that the job that I do, it's not about the food, actually, it's about you as a person, what you think and feel about yourself, that then has a knock on effect with the food.

And actually, I kind of feel like if I can do a 180 with my life, you know, I'm no different to anybody else. I found it hard. If I can do that, then absolutely anyone can, but you've gotta be shown how to do it.

Stephanie: Right.

Emily: You know, it, it took me a long time to kind of figure this stuff out, but actually you can do it quite quickly if you know how to.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Emily: And I just don't want people to be in that pain.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's tough for these things. Because so many of these things are unconscious, as you said, and when they're unconscious, it's tough to find them. It's tough to know what they are. It's tough to realize how it is that you're being sabotaged by these thoughts. You're not even aware of, that to me is always, one of, one of the real tricky parts like, how do you make the unconscious things that are, that are sabotaging you?

How do you make them conscious? How do you find them?

Emily: we're not taught this stuff early enough.

Stephanie: Mm

Emily: I kind of feel that, you know, growing up, if we were taught this stuff, my god, wouldn't life be different?

You know, yeah, we'd still make some some mistakes, which is, that's life. But actually, you'd make the mistakes from a place of confidence, from a place of thinking you from a place of value.

You know, when you think those things, the decisions you make are markedly different from when, you know, the opposite is true.

Stephanie: Emily. I'm so happy that you were able to join me today. I'm thrilled to be here with you. And I want to thank you so much for, for being so generous with your story.

Emily: No, thank you. And thank you for telling me about your story, because I'm going to remember that next time I do something embarrassing,

Stephanie: Yeah,

Emily: Well, Steph was stupid as well,

Stephanie: That's right. That's right. And you're welcome to tell anybody who needs to know, your clients, anybody who needs another story of stupid humanity that, you know, I'm human, too.

Emily: But I, and I love your story. You know, the, the whole 40 drinks thing. You know, and I said to you earlier, before we jumped on here that, your emails are just so engaging. The whole thing you've done around this 40 Drinks podcast is brilliant. You know, just. This in itself is really helping people, you know, it's amazing the work that you do.

Stephanie: Thank you so That that really means the world to me. I, I'm, I appreciate your kind words so much.

Emily: You're welcome.